Russia prepares for nuclear war with mass evacuation exercise

[mauvais]

That's not entirely accurate . Leaving aside the fact it was a pitch black aircraft extremely high up in the middle of the night, it was only its third mission over Serbia . There was a combination of factors . The yanks comms had been intercepted by the Serbs . Meaning the Serbs had a good idea in which area there'd be an attacker in advance . In order to actually hit the thing with guided missiles, from ten miles away , the radar still had to actually detect it and the guidance systems to lock on. Something that was supposedly impossible to do with a Stealth craft . And something that was additionally very difficult to do , given that the moment Serb anti aircraft radar started scanning it would immediately be targeted for destruction by HARM systems, which lock onto radar emissions and send a missile straight after it . So they only had about 20 seconds in which to do it . With an antiquated missile system that was considered pretty much obsolete by modern NATO standards .
There was another one believed to have been damaged on a different night but made it back to base .

This is going off memory but they'd been running sorties regularly enough in that area that a pattern could be identified. Then from there they got a lock when the bomb doors were opened which inevitably compromises stealth. Opportunism is made much easier if you can predict when and where you might be able to take advantage.

Edit: reasonable summary in this and linked articles:

“Vega 31”: the first and only F-117 Stealth Fighter Jet shot down in combat (15 years ago today)

The Serbs supposedly had quite a lot of success with low tech tactics (like mockup aircraft) as the Americans relied more on tech than good strategic thinking

 

[DownwardDog]

This is going off memory but they'd been running sorties regularly enough in that area that a pattern could be identified. Then from there they got a lock when the bomb doors were opened which inevitably compromises stealth. Opportunism is made much easier if you can predict when and where you might be able to take advantage.

The F-117 didn't have SEAD cover that night as the EA-6Bs were diverted elsewhere after the sortie had been launched. If that hadn't happened then there would have been a good chance of the SA-3 battery eating a HARM.

After the Kosovo shootdown the 410th FTS spent over a year reflying the same mission profile as Vega-31 to work out how it was done to obviate against a future occurence. It's all academic now as the last Nighthawk was retired in 2008.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Jesus wept. What the fuck is this?

 

[Casually Red]

This is going off memory but they'd been running sorties regularly enough in that area that a pattern could be identified. Then from there they got a lock when the bomb doors were opened which inevitably compromises stealth. Opportunism is made much easier if you can predict when and where you might be able to take advantage.

Half way through NATO became convinced they had a spy in the camp . The predictions were based on a number of factors, including very good intelligence . It wasn't merely that the Yugoslav army shot down the Stealth and damaged another . It was that very often when NATO went out to bomb the Yugoslav army their intended targets had suddenly vanished , track suits, fags and all . That's when they started blowing up Sunday markets, commuter trains, TV stations ,cigarette factories and the like instead . And the Chinese embassy . Tens of millions of pounds/ marks/ dollars were being expended blowing up wooden dummy tanks with a microwave oven inside . Almost every last mobile AA system survived the onslaught intact as well. The battery that took down the Stealth remained intact at the conflict send despite the obvious priority for its destruction .

The JNA waltzed out of Kosovo Metohija horns blaring and in fine fettle, in fine spirits after around 80 days and nights of non stop bombing. The vast majority of their equipment intact . I think out of 300 battle tanks deployed there they lost only 3 or 4 to NATO targeting . And that was in no small measure due to their AA systems, considered obsolete and not just antiquated, determining the ceiling at which NATO bombers operated . They weren't even equipped withBUK systems, Yeltsin embargoed it . So when one considers the array of defensive measures the Kremlin has dedicated to the Syrian campaign , and what the Syrians have themselves...just recently overhauled and upgraded by Russian technicians, as well as the S300 and S400.....it's pretty much light years in front of what the JNA had at their disposal . Which was considered obsolete and useless .

 

[T & P]

Russia moving nuclear-capable missiles into Kaliningrad, says Estonia

'Nuclear-capable' is a favourite term used by the media to sensationalise reports, but ultimately meaningless. Yes, Iskander missiles could be fitted with nukes. Just as the overwhelming majority of Russian aircraft regularly flying just outside U.K. airspace can. Is it likely they will? Is it fuck.

 

[Casually Red]

'Nuclear-capable' is a favourite term used by the media to sensationalise reports, but ultimately meaningless. Yes, Iskander missiles could be fitted with nukes. Just as the overwhelming majority of Russian aircraft regularly flying just outside U.K. airspace can. Is it likely they will? Is it fuck.

And as an added insult the same paper will describe! In the next breath, the nuclear capable missile bases the US is dotting methodically around the Russian border as a defensive measure, no threat to anyone . And pour scorn on the severe Russian discomfort these nuclear capable missile bases are at the root of. And portray that annoyance as yet more evidence of Russian craziness and aggression .

 

[ska invita]

'Nuclear-capable' is a favourite term used by the media to sensationalise reports, but ultimately meaningless. Yes, Iskander missiles could be fitted with nukes. Just as the overwhelming majority of Russian aircraft regularly flying just outside U.K. airspace can. Is it likely they will? Is it fuck.

Still, the movement of missiles sounds like its designed to create these kind of media reports

 

[DownwardDog]

I think out of 300 battle tanks deployed there they lost only 3 or 4 to NATO targeting .

93 VJ MBTs were hit. 26 destroyed. 67 severely damaged.

 

[2hats]

The F-117 didn't have SEAD cover that night as the EA-6Bs were diverted elsewhere after the sortie had been launched. If that hadn't happened then there would have been a good chance of the SA-3 battery eating a HARM.

They were relatively easy to spot anyway; the first generation stealth on the F-117 was somewhat oversold. In the early 90's I played with (not classified) radar hardware that could see them. They really needed that SEAD support. Even more recent generations of stealth aircraft can be tracked via a number and combination of techniques (you "cannae change the laws of physics", only try to bend them to your advantage).

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Why does Russia do these things? I genuinely think they enjoy fucking with the west/NATO, for the lulz, as much as for any grand long term strategic plan. Like all the cyber-espionage stuff, so frequently blamed (pseudo-subtly) on Russia by the Beeb. I've read that silk road replacement alphabay is a Russian mob site, and one of its rules is "do not sell data on Russian citizens". Hard to believe that it's not in some way protected by some part of the state with a rule like that (whether that's a corrupt official, or if the Kremlin get a kick out of poisoning the west's youth and defrauding their credit cards is obviously pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised by either scenario).

I heard a radio 4 program once, about a term used in Russian diplomacy, which I have forgot, and doesn't have a direct English translation anyway; it basically means "doing things to confuse your rivals, with the intention that they will genuinely not know what you will do next, how far you are prepared to go, with the aim of using this uncertainty to achieve a superior negotiating position". If anyone knows the word, id love t Google it. In any case, it appears to be alive and well as a tactic, at the heart of Russian international relations.

 

[2hats]

Why does Russia do these things?

Fun and games. To both warn and confuse. To posture and intimidate. Their main ICBM/SLBMs can reach pretty much anywhere on the planet anyway, 10000+km (they also tend to have huge throw weights = lots of lower yield and/or a few very high yield MIRVS and/or decoys). The SS26's that have been deployed are short range, ~500km (and were originally threatened to be deployed there several years ago in response to and to 'neutralise' US plans to deploy ABM defences in eastern Europe).

"doing things to confuse your rivals, with the intention that they will genuinely not know what you will do next, how far you are prepared to go, with the aim of using this uncertainty to achieve a superior negotiating position"

Dezinformatsiya? Then there is the roughly analogous military tactic of maskirovka.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Dezinformatsiya? Then there is the roughly analogous military tactic of maskirovka.

Could have been either, but was almost certainly one.

Спасибо

 

[Casually Red]

93 VJ MBTs were hit. 26 destroyed. 67 severely damaged.

 

[ska invita]

Looks like the Mail and the Daily Star are on board with talking up ww3
British tabloids go into WWIII frenzy over reported pull-out of Russian officials’ relatives

 

[Pickman's model]

Looks like the Mail and the Daily Star are on board with talking up ww3
British tabloids go into WWIII frenzy over reported pull-out of Russian officials’ relatives

no, china's going to be involved too, it's not going to be everyone against russia.

 

[coley]

LNE, or if you like, limited nuclear exchange, a term that has popped up many times over the years, err limited to who?
We have had small tactical nukes since I was a shivering bairn dropped into Belfast many moons ago, yet the start small, build up/arms race has been in effect since we moved from stone to iron.
The Chinese relief/aid armie.......organisations moving into a nuclear devastated Russia/USA/ Western Europe exists only in the realm of Tom Clancy readers?
Dodgy times all round, and I speak as someone who grew up in the 50/60s and thought the world had outgrown the thought of MAD.buggerinhell

 

[Idris2002]

Fun and games. To both warn and confuse. To posture and intimidate. Their main ICBM/SLBMs can reach pretty much anywhere on the planet anyway, 10000+km (they also tend to have huge throw weights = lots of lower yield and/or a few very high yield MIRVS and/or decoys). The SS26's that have been deployed are short range, ~500km (and were originally threatened to be deployed there several years ago in response to and to 'neutralise' US plans to deploy ABM defences in eastern Europe).

Dezinformatsiya? Then there is the roughly analogous military tactic of maskirovka.

My mum used to smoke Maskirovkas, but she said they were a bit hard on the throat.

 

[Anju]

Don't panic. We may be in the early stages of reassembling the home guard. Their strategists are already working with the daily mail. It is being denied but how else can this be explained.

 

[Pickman's model]

Don't panic. We may be in the early stages of reassembling the home guard. Their strategists are already working with the daily mail. It is being denied but how else can this be explained.

View attachment 94208

you know the home guard not a naval force, right?

 

[Anju]

you know the home guard not a naval force, right?

I refuse to believe you are not aware that I was joking about the Dads Army style graphic from the mail.

 

[Pickman's model]

I refuse to believe you are not aware that I was joking about the Dads Army style graphic from the mail.

i am quite ready to believe you can't understand how you've fucked up the dad's army reference.

 

[Anju]

i am quite ready to believe you can't understand how you've fucked up the dad's army reference.

Sorry, I didn't realise your priorities were, 1 monitor and where necessary correct all social media references to dads army, 2 topple governments worldwide.

Besides, the home guard were concerned about naval invasion forces.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry, I didn't realise your priorities were, 1 monitor and where necessary correct all social media references to dads army, 2 topple governments worldwide.

Besides, the home guard were concerned about naval invasion forces.

1) those aren't my priorities; 2) there are no naval invasion forces.

 

[Anju]

1) those aren't my priorities; 2) there are no naval invasion forces.

OK, I should have put replying to my posts as number one.

Is it not a naval invasion when people get on boats to go somewhere and then jump off and invade somewhere.

 

[Pickman's model]

OK, I should have put replying to my posts as number one.

Is it not a naval invasion when people get on boats to go somewhere and then jump off and invade somewhere.

there are no naval invasion forces. there is a russian carrier group which - as stated on wikipedia (!) - is on its way to the coast of syria. it is not accompanied by landing craft. it is not accompanied by troopships. it is not invading anywhere.

 

[gosub]

there are no naval invasion forces. there is a russian carrier group which - as stated on wikipedia (!) - is on its way to the coast of syria. it is not accompanied by landing craft. it is not accompanied by troopships. it is not invading anywhere.

Thats exactly what they want you to think.

 

[Anju]

there are no naval invasion forces. there is a russian carrier group which - as stated on wikipedia (!) - is on its way to the coast of syria. it is not accompanied by landing craft. it is not accompanied by troopships. it is not invading anywhere.

I refer you to my original post, which was a joke made in response to the daily mail employing a dads army inspired graphic. if you think I was actually expecting Russia to invade but feeling unconcerned because we had reassembled the home guard you must be dads army.

 

[Pickman's model]

I refer you to my original post, which was a joke made in response to the daily mail employing a dads army inspired graphic. if you think I was actually expecting Russia to invade but feeling unconcerned because we had reassembled the home guard you must be dads army.

let's say no more about your obvious and unamusing attempt at humour.

 

[weltweit]

Russia sails only aircraft carrier down the North sea through the English Channel, in preparation for war ..

 

[Anju]

let's say no more about your obvious and unamusing attempt at humour.

Well done good job.