Rochdale grooming trial: Nine men jailed

[Ranbay]

Sorry to hear about that mate.

It's cool no need to say sorry, it was a long long time ago. I still see him every now and then, it's kinda fucked up in so many ways and other days I’m like... "meh so what" about it. The point I’m trying to make is, no matter what we do, there will always be some bloke/blokes trying to fuck kids wether they be brown white or whatever religion.

 

[purenarcotic]

Power is certainly a factor involved. Also, in some cases, the abuser was abused themselves, and seems identify with the abuser as opposed to identifying with themselves as the victim.

Obviously there are usually other factors / it's a bit more complex than two sentences heh.

 

[ymu]

Some people have mooted that option. To basically let them live in a max security type village. Let them work, let them live in houses, but with absolutely no access to children / no ever coming back into the real world. Pedophiles are usually well behaved prisoners; they are unlikely to attack staff / each other, so in terms of their freedom of movement within this institution (for want of a better word) they would be pretty open.

But this has all sorts of problems attached to it, it's difficult.

There are no easy answers really, I certainly don't have them. But I do think it's something that needs looking at and talking about, because we need to do something about them.

Making it into an even bigger taboo just prevents potential offenders from seeking help before they offend. There aren't many people who actually like being paedophiles.

Canada has the right idea, I think.

 

[purenarcotic]

Making it into an even bigger taboo just prevents potential offenders from seeking help before they offend. There aren't many people who actually like being paedophiles.

Canada has the right idea, I think.

Yup, I mentioned that scheme in a subsequent post.

 

[_angel_]

There aren't many people who actually like being paedophiles.

.

What a totally bizarre statement. How can anyone know this.

 

[frogwoman]

Making it into an even bigger taboo just prevents potential offenders from seeking help before they offend. There aren't many people who actually like being paedophiles.

Canada has the right idea, I think.

I quite like the advertising campaign they did in germany asking whether people liked children a bit too much and promoted a helpline about it which people could ring.

 

[bignose1]

There is also the problem that noone wants to admit it. One of the teachers at our school was a rapist and the other teachers and his friends had a big campaign to prove his innocence and even attacked one of the victims in the community because they just couldn't believe that this guy who was their friend had duped them and that they actually liked him
People don't really like much about reality and are able to explain anything to suit them

Parrswood??

 

[ymu]

Like I said way back in the thread, I had mates in "care homes" in southwest London who had this shit happen to them, and that was back in the '70s, plus I'm fairly sure Edie posted about stuff happening in her area in the late '80s. It's been a UK-wide problem at least since then, and I'd bet that it goes back much further.

And this fucking appalling case. Two of the governors who let this happen on their watch (and whose officers testified that they [the officers] knew what was going on but did nothing) are very senior in the prison service, and they are not answering any questions - nor are they being made to.

 

[Pickman's model]

What a totally bizarre statement. How can anyone know this.

i wouldn't expect a quick response, ymu's been very peculiar on this thread & making all manner of strange statements and bizarre insinuations.

 

[ymu]

Yup, I mentioned that scheme in a subsequent post.

Yeah, sorry. Canucking the thread. I gave you a nice link though.

 

[ymu]

What a totally bizarre statement. How can anyone know this.

Congress took some testimony a few years back. I found it when The Sun was getting hysterical over Sarah's Law. I read some of it.

Not sure how you can begin to get to grips with the subject unless you have some understanding of how they think. Not that they're a homogeneous group anyway, but I don't think it helps to dismiss them as monsters when there are so many of them around, most of them abusing their own children or young relatives and getting away with it. Demonising is understandable, but it does nothing to reduce the number of victims - it makes them more likely to become actual abusers because they cannot risk asking anyone for help.

 

[bamalama]

i wouldn't expect a quick response, ymu's been very peculiar on this thread & making all manner of strange statements and bizarre insinuations.

I think ymu's argued their corner rightly,they've made some valid points.This is a really good thread and without ymus' contributions i don't think the discussion'd be so lively,and in my own case enlightening...

 

[Pickman's model]

I think ymu's argued their corner rightly,they've made some valid points.This is a really good thread and without ymus' contributions i don't think the discussion'd be so lively,and in my own case enlightening...

she hasn't argued her corner about why she insinuated i'm a racist.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And this fucking appalling case. Two of the governors who let this happen on their watch (and whose officers testified that they [the officers] knew what was going on but did nothing) are very senior in the prison service, and they are not answering any questions - nor are they being made to.

Again, that's institutional culture for you. Mouth some piety about "lessons learned" and sweep as much of the crap under the carpet as possible. I'd also say to the author of the piece that given such a culture, if any of the staff who knew what Husband was doing considered reporting him, they'd have known that the likely end would be them being moved or disciplined, rather than Husband. HMPS doesn't like its' dirty laundry being aired in public. It has a culture that has allowed racism to run unchecked among the staff in most establishments, and is prone to corruption. Whistle-blowers (as elsewhere in the Civil Service) get shat on, wrong-doers get moved sideways, promoted out of the way or receive unrecorded "advice" about their behaviour. It's shit, but it really doesn't surprise me. I used to see crap in HMPS all the time.

 

[ymu]

Give it up Pickmans. Pathetic baiting tactic is pathetic.

 

[frogwoman]

she hasn't argued her corner about why she insinuated i'm a racist.

where? didn't see that tbf, but i haven't read the whole thread

 

[bamalama]

she hasn't argued her corner about why she insinuated i'm a racist.

Right, i didn't pick up on that...

 

[ViolentPanda]

What a totally bizarre statement. How can anyone know this.

The conclusion is drawn from research. That said, one of the issues with interviewing convicts is that the temptation to tell the researcher what you think they want to hear is strong.

 

[ymu]

Again, that's institutional culture for you. Mouth some piety about "lessons learned" and sweep as much of the crap under the carpet as possible. I'd also say to the author of the piece that given such a culture, if any of the staff who knew what Husband was doing considered reporting him, they'd have known that the likely end would be them being moved or disciplined, rather than Husband. HMPS doesn't like its' dirty laundry being aired in public. It has a culture that has allowed racism to run unchecked among the staff in most establishments, and is prone to corruption. Whistle-blowers (as elsewhere in the Civil Service) get shat on, wrong-doers get moved sideways, promoted out of the way or receive unrecorded "advice" about their behaviour. It's shit, but it really doesn't surprise me. I used to see crap in HMPS all the time.

The comments on that article include several from two more of the victims. Heart-breaking, but full of determination. I don't think they've given up yet. I hope they live to see some real justice, along with the many tens of thousands of others abused by the state. The Home Office won't even issue a fucking apology. Cunts.

 

[purenarcotic]

The conclusion is drawn from research. That said, one of the issues with interviewing convicts is that the temptation to tell the researcher what you think they want to hear is strong.

I was just about to say that. I wonder too if the potential of going along with the therapy to speed up release dates comes into play too.

 

[Spymaster]

S

she hasn't argued her corner about why she insinuated i'm a racist.

She has studiously avoiding responding to several posters who have asked for explanations for her disgusting slurs.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The comments on that article include several from two of the victims. Heart-breaking, but full of determination. I don't think they've given up yet. I hope they live to see some real justice, along with the many tens of thousands of others abused by the state. The Home Office won't even issue a fucking apology. Cunts.

Well, that's the point I'm making: They won't because culturally they can't. They're bound by 200 years of doing things their way into a very restricted spectrum of reactions, and admitting liability isn't one they can bring themselves to contemplate. It's totally outside of their particular institutional culture. Getting any institutional culture to exercise a degree of reflexivity is almost impossible. It requires a (to use the phrase in its' proper context) paradigm shift of operational activity so great as to be unthinkable by those who are part of the culture.

 

[ymu]

I was just about to say that. I wonder too if the potential of going along with the therapy to speed up release dates comes into play too.

IIRC, the paedophiles who testified to Congress had no hope of release, and it wasn't terribly self-serving stuff.

I think the Canadian project also adds a great deal to what we know. Giving them a support group in the community who they can call up and speak to honestly whenever they feel like they might give in to the urges has reduced recidivism dramatically. I should look up some more recent articles to see how it's going a few years down the line, but it's a tough google, and nearly my bedtime.

Revenge is sweet, but prevention is a million times better.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I was just about to say that. I wonder too if the potential of going along with the therapy to speed up release dates comes into play too.

Not much, AFAIK. Most offences that warrant an SOTP course or more tend to be ones with specified minimum sentences attached, so release date isn't affected if the judge has said "11 years, with a minimum of 8 to be served".
How it affects parole considerations for other types of serious crime that don't include specified minimum "time served" is open to question, though.

 

[_angel_]

The conclusion is drawn from research. That said, one of the issues with interviewing convicts is that the temptation to tell the researcher what you think they want to hear is strong.

This is what I thought too, in terms of getting the truth.
Back to the Op, theres still plenty of victim blaming going on, bloke in corner shop was blaming the girls.

 

[ymu]

Well, that's the point I'm making: They won't because culturally they can't. They're bound by 200 years of doing things their way into a very restricted spectrum of reactions, and admitting liability isn't one they can bring themselves to contemplate. It's totally outside of their particular institutional culture. Getting any institutional culture to exercise a degree of reflexivity is almost impossible. It requires a (to use the phrase in its' proper context) paradigm shift of operational activity so great as to be unthinkable by those who are part of the culture.

Murdoch seemed invincible a couple of years ago. I'm glad they're still fighting, and someone, some day, will win.

 

[purenarcotic]

but prevention is a million times better.

I agree entirely.

 

[purenarcotic]

This is what I thought too, in terms of getting the truth.
Back to the Op, theres still plenty of victim blaming going on, bloke in corner shop was blaming the girls.

The sick twist of irony in all this, is that blaming the children has been used by pedophiles before. 'They were asking for it, they were looking at me provocatively' etc etc etc.

 

[bamalama]

IIRC, the paedophiles who testified to Congress had no hope of release, and it wasn't terribly self-serving stuff.

I think the Canadian project also adds a great deal to what we know. Giving them a support group in the community who they can call up and speak to honestly whenever they feel like they might give in to the urges has reduced recidivism dramatically. I should look up some more recent articles to see how it's going a few years down the line, but it's a tough google, and nearly my bedtime.

Revenge is sweet, but prevention is a million times better.

There was a case in the us where a peodophile had murdered a wee girl and the girls mother campaigned against his death sentence. Her reasoning was it's better to try and understand what made him do it rather than just killing him.Surprise when they discovered the murderer had been the victim of severe abuse himself when a child...This is a huge problem,a lot of peodophiles were childhood victims themselves, and it seems to be deeply learned behaviour.

 

[_angel_]

The sick twist of irony in all this, is that blaming the children has been used by pedophiles before. 'They were asking for it, they were looking at me provocatively' etc etc etc.

"The little sluts"
It wasn't actually me he said this to but Swarthy. I don't think he'd make controversial remarks to me as much.