Rochdale grooming trial: Nine men jailed

[frogwoman]

This is the million dollar question.

There's an interesting project in Canada where a group of Quakers have basically formed a sort of 'circle'. Pedophiles are referred to them upon release and they live with them and basically have a programe of activities to fill up the day. The idea behind it is that if they're always with other people then they can't reoffend. It has pretty good rates of success, the reoffending rates are much lower compared to those released without this intensive support. But this in itself is a mammoth ask of people; I mean would you allow a pedo to live with you? I'm not sure I could put aside my personal emotions to let them into my home and eat around my dinner table.

I expect there isn't one solution; as with most of these things it'll have to be multi-faceted and what works for one person won't work for another.

But they still reoffend sometimes though, it's not foolproof and personally i wouldn't want a paedo living with me or anywhere near me. Call me a cunt but quite honestly i find the idea repellent. If some of them are stopped by it then fair enough but i couldn't take part in such schemes. And I am sure that they sometimes do some good but I also think the majority of people feel the same way as I do

 

[purenarcotic]

Grendon had to cut it's rehab budget by 15%, and has to make further cuts for the next 3 years (until 2015) too. Fucking ridiculous when it's just about the only British penal institution that's had success in minimising re-offending by dangerous and often violent sexual criminals.

It's a scandal tbh.

 

[Citizen66]

Not that prevalent in the Gay and Lesbian community(s). He did, after all, make the claim about ALL communities.

You'll get jumped on for referring to them as gay and lesbian communities.

 

[Ranbay]

See now the old school way was to get them in the care homes, you didnt even need to go pick them up or ply them with drugs and booze...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/641819.stm

The 18-month inquiry, headed by Sir Ronald Waterhouse QC, covers the alleged abuse of up to 750 children in 40 homes over two decades.

The inquiry heard allegations against 148 people in 40 homes, centring on the former counties of Gwynedd and Clwyd.

none of this stuff is new.

 

[rover07]

Age of first involvement in prostitution

Study Sample size and study site Findings.

Kinnell 1993 115 women in Birmingham More than half became involved in
prostitution before they were 17

Faugier and Cranfield 1994 250 women in Manchester 63% of women became involved in
prostitution before they were 20

Benson and Matthews 48 women across the UK Three quarters were aged 17 or
1995 younger when they became involved in prostitution, 40% were 15 or younger.

Sharpe 1998 40 women in a ‘northern UK city’ A quarter became involved in
prostitution aged 16 or 17, 8% were 15 or younger

May et al 1999 67 women working in three Half (33) became involved in
cities in the UK prostitution before they were 18


Annex C
Key statistics

http://webarchive.nationalarchives....uk/documents/paying_the_price.pdf?view=Binary

The Rochdale prostitution ring is potrayed as being some weird abnormal child rape-gang but the truth is it's normal.

This is the reality of prostitution in Britain. The adverts in the back of every local newspaper up and down the country are for these teenage and in many cases under-age girls.

To target one community and try to pass it off as a 'cultural problem' is just crap.

 

[butchersapron]

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ /http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/paying_the_price.pdf?view=Binary

The Rochdale prostitution ring is potrayed as being some weird abnormal child rape-gang but the truth is it's normal.

This is the reality of prostitution in Britain. The adverts in the back of every local newspaper up and down the country are for these teenage and in many cases under-age girls.

To target one community and try to pass it off as a 'cultural problem' is just crap.

How crap is it to insist that this is what people are doing? Fucking disgrace.

 

[Ranbay]

 

[butchersapron]

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ /http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/documents/paying_the_price.pdf?view=Binary

The Rochdale prostitution ring is potrayed as being some weird abnormal child rape-gang but the truth is it's normal.

This is the reality of prostitution in Britain. The adverts in the back of every local newspaper up and down the country are for these teenage and in many cases under-age girls.

To target one community and try to pass it off as a 'cultural problem' is just crap.

In what way does your little google support what you have argued here? Have you read the document (from 2004)that you quote?

 

[ViolentPanda]

You'll get jumped on for referring to them as gay and lesbian communities.

TBH, that knowledge merely provokes a "see how much I don't give a fuck?" response from me.

 

[SpineyNorman]

works fine here.

Weird, I'm getting "internal server error" when I try it.

 

[Ranbay]

Weird, I'm getting "internal server error" when I try it.

Eight Leicester City footballers are in custody in Spain today over allegations of sexual assault against three women, police said.
A ninth player has been released on bail, police in Cartagena said.
The allegations against the players, who were on a warm weather training break at the exclusive La Manga resort, are the latest scandal to rock football.
The alleged victims were said to have been attacked in the hotel Los Belones in Cartagena.
In a statement police said: "Agents of the judicial police, of the Cartagena division of the national police, arrested nine people, all members of English football club Leicester City, in relation to a sexual assault alleged by three women."
Women 'found to have injuries'
Police said the women had claimed the players went by force into their room and that they were sexually assaulted by some of them.
The women had been intending to return to Germany but were persuaded by police to remain in the country to be interviewed.
The alleged victims were found to have suffered injuries to various parts of their body when examined by doctors at Alicante general hospital and police doctors, police said.
The three women gave the police a bracelet, which was apparently broken by one of the aggressors, as well as torn underpants with blood, they added.
They separately identified by photograph the footballers alleged to have carried out the assaults, establishing the level of involvement of each one of them.
The nine arrested have not been named.
Sexual assault charges
Four of the players face allegations of sexual assault, and one of them of assault, according to the statement from the Spanish authorities.
Four were arrested for sexual assault and breaking and entering, one for assault and breaking and entering, and three for breaking and entering and leaving a crime scene without offering assistance.
The ninth was arrested for leaving a crime scene without offering assistance.
A police spokesman said they appeared before a judge this morning before being taken into judicial custody.
The players were first arrested yesterday after the allegations were made on Monday - when the incident was alleged to have taken place.
Club 'co-operating'
The rest of the squad cut short the week-long trip and flew back to England last night though club officials stressed they had not been thrown out of their hotel.
Leicester City issued a statement which said: "The club is aware that a number of players have been interviewed by Spanish police as a result of alleged incidents which took place during a club training camp in Spain.
"The club is co-operating fully with the authorities in their investigations but, as these investigations are still ongoing, is not in a position to make any further comment at this stage."
The club's chief executive Tim Davies is understood to have flown out to Spain to join manager Micky Adams, who has remained with the players.

 

[ViolentPanda]

See now the old school way was to get them in the care homes, you didnt even need to go pick them up or ply them with drugs and booze...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/641819.stm



none of this stuff is new.

Like I said way back in the thread, I had mates in "care homes" in southwest London who had this shit happen to them, and that was back in the '70s, plus I'm fairly sure Edie posted about stuff happening in her area in the late '80s. It's been a UK-wide problem at least since then, and I'd bet that it goes back much further.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Like I said way back in the thread, I had mates in "care homes" in southwest London who had this shit happen to them, and that was back in the '70s, plus I'm fairly sure Edie posted about stuff happening in her area in the late '80s. It's been a UK-wide problem at least since then, and I'd bet that it goes back much further.

Yep, I had a couple of mates who were give compensation (only £10k, nowhere near enough) for abuse they received in a kids' home in the '80s and I think also the early '90s in Peterborough. Must have been rife round that time cos it seems to have happened in just about every city in the UK. Might still be happening for all I know.

 

[purenarcotic]

But they still reoffend sometimes though, it's not foolproof and personally i wouldn't want a paedo living with me or anywhere near me. Call me a cunt but quite honestly i find the idea repellent. If some of them are stopped by it then fair enough but i couldn't take part in such schemes. And I am sure that they sometimes do some good but I also think the majority of people feel the same way as I do

Well this is it. It's hugely unpopular, so massive props to anybody who works with pedophiles and doesn't scratch their face off tbh.

 

[Ranbay]

Like I said way back in the thread, I had mates in "care homes" in southwest London who had this shit happen to them, and that was back in the '70s, plus I'm fairly sure Edie posted about stuff happening in her area in the late '80s. It's been a UK-wide problem at least since then, and I'd bet that it goes back much further.

Yup, 100's if not 1000's of years, and it will go on, I was abused in early 80's friend of the family, got invited to his wedding or stag do or something of the like about 10 years later..... i didnt go.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yep, I had a couple of mates who were give compensation (only £10k, nowhere near enough) for abuse they received in a kids' home in the '80s and I think also the early '90s in Peterborough. Must have been rife round that time cos it seems to have happened in just about every city in the UK. Might still be happening for all I know.

Predatory criminals are adept at finding a niche, and conning people. It's as likely to happen now, despite the safeguards, as it was then.

 

[butchersapron]

Yup, 100's if not 1000's of years, and it will go on, I was abused in early 80's friend of the family, got invited to his wedding or stag do or something of the like about 10 years later..... i didnt go.

Power relations.

(i hope that doesn't come across as hard hearted as it looks on text)

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yup, 100's if not 1000's of years....

My grandad and his sisters were in Guildford workhouse for a short while after their dad died in Flanders in 1915 and their step-mum kicked them out. My great-aunt used to say how glad she was to get out (she was 9 at the time, her siblings 5 and 3) because one of the female warders liked to "help the bigger girls bathe" rather too enthusiatically. Unfortunately, institutional environments make perfect "nesting places" for predators, sexual or otherwise.

I was abused in early 80's friend of the family, got invited to his wedding or stag do or something of the like about 10 years later..... i didnt go.

Control. Rubbing it in. Some people might say "oh, he probably forgot", but many predators live and re-live their predations, so I find it hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[frogwoman]

Well this is it. It's hugely unpopular, so massive props to anybody who works with pedophiles and doesn't scratch their face off tbh.

It's not just that I'm also sceptical of what good it does sometimes, like I don't doubt rehabilitation can do some good for a lot of people, but there are others that it can't, and could actually make the problem worse. Like there is some evidence that trying to teach some of them empathy actually ends up teaching them to feign it isn't there? In that case what do you do?

 

[Ranbay]

Power relations.

? not sure what that means sorry.

 

[biggus dickus]

My dad worked with kids from care homes and he said that there were a lot of wardens seemed really creepy
An Irish friend told me that the church there developed those problems because the church used to look after kids with noone to look after them and so the nonces often got sent into that field to avoid such a difficult problem bothering normal folks, maybe care homes are the secular equivalent?

 

[butchersapron]

? not sure what that means sorry.

People who want to abuse people are helped by their power relations - they're on top. Being in control of a group of people is how they work. Getting to that position is part of how they use their power. Part of doing that is their background.

 

[purenarcotic]

It's not just that I'm also sceptical of what good it does sometimes, like I don't doubt rehabilitation can do some good for a lot of people, but there are others that it can't, and could actually make the problem worse. Like there is some evidence that trying to teach some of them empathy actually ends up teaching them to feign it isn't there? In that case what do you do?

Who knows. I don't know, maybe life long institutions for convicted pedophiles is the only way. I really don't know tbh, it is hugely difficult.

 

[ViolentPanda]

? not sure what that means sorry.

You were in an asymmetric "relationship" with him. In personal terms his power relation to you was as the one in control. He was reinforcing that by inviting you to his wedding, opening the wound again, re-asserting that power relationship.

 

[frogwoman]

Yup, 100's if not 1000's of years, and it will go on, I was abused in early 80's friend of the family, got invited to his wedding or stag do or something of the like about 10 years later..... i didnt go.

Sorry to hear about that mate.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Power relations.

(i hope that doesn't come across as hard hearted as it looks on text)

It's what it boils down to (socially and individually), though. Without the ability to control, most predators would find it much harder to indulge themselves.

 

[Ranbay]

People who want to abuse people are helped by their power relations - they're on top. Being in control of a group of people is how they work. Getting to that position is part of how they use their power.

Right i get you, i assume that's part of the kick also for some people.

 

[biggus dickus]

There is also the problem that noone wants to admit it. One of the teachers at our school was a rapist and the other teachers and his friends had a big campaign to prove his innocence and even attacked one of the victims in the community because they just couldn't believe that this guy who was their friend had duped them and that they actually liked him
People don't really like much about reality and are able to explain anything to suit them

 

[frogwoman]

There is also the problem that noone wants to admit it. One of the teachers at our school was a rapist and the other teachers and his friends had a big campaign to prove his innocence and even attacked one of the victims in the community because they just couldn't believe that this guy who was their friend had duped them and that they actually liked him
People don't really like much about reality

yep, made this point earlier up the thread

 

[butchersapron]

Right i get you, i assume that's part of the kick also for some people.

Horrible to say, but it might well be.

Always a full stop on these threads here because, well...