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quickie question about unions

C

campanula

diminished responsibilty
Um, my youngest works as a welder/fabricator for a somewhat old-style family tool and engineering firm. There is no union representation as jobs are mostly split between retail work, admin and accounts and the very small metalwork shop my youngest runs. After his weekend plans to go to London to see Red Hot Chili Peppers(!) have turned into a mission (although he absolutely supports the rail workers), he is furiously insisting on joining a union and also getting one started in his workplace which offer representation to a bunch of 20 or so workers doing various unrelated jobs. Any suggestions, Did think of Pipe-fitters and welders but this would exclude the majority of people at his work.
 
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Yep, I think Unite would be one to consider - apparently quite a few of the other workers are keen...although it is a weird place with a lot of long-serving workers. Now on the 4th generation of family member ownership...this one is mad keen to get his hands dirty. Has been great for my lad (he has 2 new apprentices ) and also has been teaching his boss, the business owner, some of the intricacies of welding...which has led to a large influx of thrilling toys (such as fancy plasma cutters and such). Dreadful pay but lots of perks and decent conditions, Fall down shockingly on H&S. In truth, it isn't a terrible place to work but yah know - organised labour...
 
campanula said:
Yep, I think Unite would be one to consider - apparently quite a few of the other workers are keen...although it is a weird place with a lot of long-serving workers. Now on the 4th generation of family member ownership...this one is mad keen to get his hands dirty. Has been great for my lad (he has 2 new apprentices ) and also has been teaching his boss, the business owner, some of the intricacies of welding...which has led to a large influx of thrilling toys (such as fancy plasma cutters and such). Dreadful pay but lots of perks and decent conditions, Fall down shockingly on H&S. In truth, it isn't a terrible place to work but yah know - organised labour...
Click to expand...

I imagine the business owners aren’t living uncomfortable lives, mind.
 
Amicus & TGWU came together generally for UNITE!
As far as I am aware AEUW(Engineers) & EEPTU (Electricians) were the main unions that amalgamated for the AEEU which combined with MSF for Amicus!

Interesting 'unofficial' website for Amicus!

Wayback Machine

web.archive.org
 
Wonder if anyone has experience of whether Unite are geared up to represent people who are in small workplaces - my only experience of Unite has been in the bus / coach world where each bus garage is usually big enough to be a branch on its own (and if it isn't then there have been other garage/s as part of the same branch.) I've not been a member myself, as when i've worked for a bus operator (rather than local authority or similar) the admin grades have been another union (NALGO / TSSA.)

I'm aware some unions aren't that great at handling small numbers of people in small workplaces, others will have a local branch for people working in small workplaces. Does anyone know what Unite are like on this? The other possibility might be GMB, who I know even less about.

Some of the newer, non TUC unions like IWGB seem to have started more at the 'gig economy' end of things and may be more flexible in their structures but may not have much local presence.

I wish him success, but do wonder how many of his colleagues will not want to risk 'rocking the boat' or may even be actively hostile to the idea - a fairly high proportion of people who have grown up since the 70s have been conditioned by the bosses and the media to see trade unions as a 'them' not an 'us'.

Probably stating the obvious to most people round here, but while (with a few exceptions like army and old bill) everyone's got a right to join any trade union that will have them, and will have access to member benefits and advice (including on H+S), getting a formal recognition agreement with employer is another question and may end up in a battle with employer. Can he be sure that his colleagues will be supportive in this, or could he end up in a position where he is isolated and gets picked off by employer? Has he been with employer long enough to have some 'unfair dismissal' protection? (in theory, I think lawful trade union activity is one of the things where protection is from day 1 not 2 years, but it comes down to what you can prove to a tribunal.)
 
I’d go with Unite for a lot of the other benefits that can be offered.

Sucking eggs I know, but I’d also probably join first as an individual before starting to organise everyone else to make sure he has some support and cover.

Depending on the nature of the employer it might have a unexpected positive side. For 12 years I was a non -exec for a large FE college (as one of the public sector types when we split it like that). Two others, who both ran small engineering companies, separately told me when we were having discussions over trade Union issues, that they almost invariably drew their supervisors and in-house mangers from union reps as they were often the people who had the most about them…

Which for all the Red Flag additional verse:

‘The working class can kiss my arse.
I’ve got the foreman’s job at last’

makes a lot of sense…
 
A380 said:
that they almost invariably drew their supervisors and in-house mangers from union reps as they were often the people who had the most about them…
Click to expand...

can work that way - although it does not necessarily make the (ex) union rep popular if they are seen to have been 'bought off', or alternatively it can (as it did in my case with a previous employer) make it certain that you will never get any sort of promotion...
 
Puddy_Tat said:
Wonder if anyone has experience of whether Unite are geared up to represent people who are in small workplaces - my only experience of Unite has been in the bus / coach world where each bus garage is usually big enough to be a branch on its own (and if it isn't then there have been other garage/s as part of the same branch.) I've not been a member myself, as when i've worked for a bus operator (rather than local authority or similar) the admin grades have been another union (NALGO / TSSA.)

I'm aware some unions aren't that great at handling small numbers of people in small workplaces, others will have a local branch for people working in small workplaces. Does anyone know what Unite are like on this? The other possibility might be GMB, who I know even less about.

Some of the newer, non TUC unions like IWGB seem to have started more at the 'gig economy' end of things and may be more flexible in their structures but may not have much local presence.
Click to expand...
Yeah, my strong suspicion is that that this'll come down to an area-by-area thing - there are probably some areas where the local Unite officials are really great and supportive of people organising in smaller workplaces, some where they're a bit crap, some areas where the local GMB are really good, etc. Similarly, IWGB and UVW are probably great options if you're in London, if not you/campanula's kid can try asking but I suspect they probably won't have any presence in the area. I would like to be able to wholeheartedly recommend the IWW but I feel like there's also no guarantee that there'll be any effective local presence, could ask though I suppose?
One more point in favour of Unite possibly being decent with small workplaces is that I know they're making attempts to organise in hospitality: Home - Unite Hospitality Obviously it's not the same thing, but I think anyone who tries to organise in that sector has to be willing to deal with small workplaces/workforces.
 
Disappointed by thread contents, not quite the kind of ‘quickie’ or ‘union’ i was expecting.

Sorry 😁. Have you tried the TUC’s online “what union should I join” thing - probably will echo the advice above, but might also show some other possibilities otherwise unthought of?
 
Magnus McGinty said:
I’d prefer one that’s semi functional.
Click to expand...
Have you been in the IWW then and or have beef with them?
I was when I was working and they helped me.
That's why I've suggested it to the OP as they said there's no union representation and a split of trades

That ok with you now?
 
Magnus McGinty said:
So they are functional? You could have simply answered instead of being arsey about it.
Click to expand...
You are the one being arsey without saying why
Yes they are/can be imo/ime
Obviously, as with all workplace organising, it depends on who gets involved and does what, location, trade etc etc
 
nastyned said:
The IWW are definitely functioning as a union in London. I suspect not all the branches listed on the website are thought.
Click to expand...
Although independent unions such as IWGB, UVW etc & even wobblies in Britian have done tremendously good and credible work & representation in Britian, do they have any contemporary expericence with heping and organising welders, fabricators, engineering and similar areas of work in this country!?

Best bet would be UNITE!
 
campanula said:
Um, my youngest works as a welder/fabricator for a somewhat old-style family tool and engineering firm. There is no union representation as jobs are mostly split between retail work, admin and accounts and the very small metalwork shop my youngest runs. After his weekend plans to go to London to see Red Hot Chili Peppers(!) have turned into a mission (although he absolutely supports the rail workers), he is furiously insisting on joining a union and also getting one started in his workplace which offer representation to a bunch of 20 or so workers doing various unrelated jobs. Any suggestions, Did think of Pipe-fitters and welders but this would exclude the majority of people at his work.
Click to expand...

Did your lad join a union campanula? How's it going?
 
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