two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Is it? I'd thought the whole point of the thread was to find references to claims made, none of which seem forthcoming so far.
Proof required to back up claims.
- Thread starter Grandma Death
- Start date
- Status
Is it? I'd thought the whole point of the thread was to find references to claims made, none of which seem forthcoming so far.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Very good advice. That's what people do with me if they don't like my stinging insights.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
God bless us, every one!
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
No, it's pretty clear the sole purpose of the thread is to attack and possibly drive out rachamim18.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
It's "pretty clear"?
And your evidence is...?
Has it occurred to you that the reason Rachamim is alternately sententious and defensive to the point of caricature, is that the opening post points up his failure to, over an ever-lengthening period of time, support claims that he made, claims he promised to provide support for, and has had to take refuge in spurious arguments and justifications to excuse himself from that failure?
More fans. Grand. I am ashamed that threads like this even exist, almost as shamed for my bending so low as to post in them. As if the forum had anything to do with me.
Hate me? Like me? Whatever. If I am so disturbing to anyone, I would AGAIN ask that they put me on Ignore and let the grownups talk.
Hate me? Like me? Whatever. If I am so disturbing to anyone, I would AGAIN ask that they put me on Ignore and let the grownups talk.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Well it's clear to me. If you're not satisfied with my answer, read on.
That means he's an annoying blowhard and possibly a fantasist - by no means the only one here. So he should be ignored, not "called out". There are currently two posters here who I am ignoring. One because of vile personal abuse, the other because he or she engaged in quite an effort to discover personal information about me and wouldn't let go when I refused to play along. I think at least one person is presently ignoring me, I think because I made remarks he found tasteless about a political hero of his. If people find rachamim18 annoying and dishonest, then ignore him if he won't engage. Don't mob him in the way this thread is designed to do.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
I don't post in the ME forum often and so don't know the arguments. Would be interested to see the links Grandma has asked for, though.
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
Fullyplumped
in a personal capacity
I suspect you'll have a long wait!
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
Ok in the meantime - anyone know the difference between the black and the red chequered headscarves the Palestinians wear? I'll want links.
ymu
Niall Ferguson's deep-cover sock-puppet
Black symbolises Fatah, Red the People's Front for the Liberation of Palestine (Socialists with a splinter group, the Democratic Front for ...), Green symbolises Hamas.
Black is less likely to signify a political allegiance.
Google keffiyeh if you want links.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
I'm not claiming credit for these findings. They have come from another board and poster I asked the very same questions the thread was opened up with:
On Rachel Corrie and ISM Claim.
On Rachel Corrie and ISM Claim.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I think this has in fact (surprisingly enough) turned out to be a call-out thread, despite requests for broader expansion, and has also brought up the old "you cussed my mum" / "i never cussed your mum you liar" argument again, which may be a classic of political thought and one of those questions pondered by theorists through the ages but which I thought we'd put to bed.
Might I suggest, yet again, perhaps with a greater degree of emphasis this time, that we have an end to said accusations of mum-cussing, without it being inferred that I support mum-cussing and wish to cover up the crimes of mum-cussers, or am trying to close down debate regarding disgraceful false accusations of mum-cussing?
Might I also suggest that there is, in fact, no "but he talks shit" defence for call-out threads, and that if someone does not provide a satisfactory answer it might be better to mark them as untrustworthy and remind other readers of this should the issue concerned come up in other threads? Rather than chase them around saying "you still haven't answered my question in post 12589 of thread 239904 in the ME forum"? Because that disrupts things for other people. Nobody actually has to answer a question "properly".
Given that interest has been expressed in the topics by unconnected parties I'll leave it for a bit, but. You know.
Might I suggest, yet again, perhaps with a greater degree of emphasis this time, that we have an end to said accusations of mum-cussing, without it being inferred that I support mum-cussing and wish to cover up the crimes of mum-cussers, or am trying to close down debate regarding disgraceful false accusations of mum-cussing?
Might I also suggest that there is, in fact, no "but he talks shit" defence for call-out threads, and that if someone does not provide a satisfactory answer it might be better to mark them as untrustworthy and remind other readers of this should the issue concerned come up in other threads? Rather than chase them around saying "you still haven't answered my question in post 12589 of thread 239904 in the ME forum"? Because that disrupts things for other people. Nobody actually has to answer a question "properly".
Given that interest has been expressed in the topics by unconnected parties I'll leave it for a bit, but. You know.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Wind him up? He keeps posting in a thread where I am asking the entire forum for any evidence to back up claims HE made. Since he has consistently avoided providing the evidence for over a year and looks like he certainly won't be breaking with tradition I'd like him to stop polluting the thread with his piss weak defence and ad homs,
I want to know if these claims are indeed true-if he's got nothing to say then why say it.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
I'd buy that. So unless anybody else has anything to say (such as providing the evidence requested) I think its fair to say the subject matter has indeed closed and the claims are infact incorrect.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Thats the whole point of the thread-but sadly it doesn't look like those links exist so the original claims must indeed be wrong.
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
OK these "questions" have basically derailed about half the threads that have appeared in Middle East and the effects they have on certain posters I'm sure has put many people off from posting in here, so I'm glad this thread was started and hopefully these issues will remain in this thread and not sneak into other threads.
Now, when it comes to searching for information on the internet I'm a fucking genius. If any of these claims by rach18 are true, and they are on the internet, I will be able to find them. If I can't, then they either do not exist or the info is not on the net. So here's my attempt to put this shit to rest (altho I'm not holding my breath and I suggest others don't either!)
Anyway, that's what I found and if anyone has any evidence to suggest what I've written is not true then please let us know so we can put this silliness behind us!
Now, when it comes to searching for information on the internet I'm a fucking genius. If any of these claims by rach18 are true, and they are on the internet, I will be able to find them. If I can't, then they either do not exist or the info is not on the net. So here's my attempt to put this shit to rest (altho I'm not holding my breath and I suggest others don't either!)
There is no confession, simple as that. Obviously I can't find any confession on the net, but more than that, this site would most definitely found out about it and commented on it, the fact they haven't leaves me in no doubt this "confession" from the ISM never happened. However, on further digging, it is very possible rach18 has confused this with another event. According to the Wiki article on the ISM (yea yea Wiki I know but it gives clues!) says:
This is what I think rach18 might be referring to in this claim. Wiki's info comes from this article which says:Wiki said:
If this information is correct (which isn't really the point), then it could possibly be suggested that the ISM "confessed" that the sequence of photos was misleading in that the apparent times were incorrect. People may have then heard about the "doctored photo" claims and merged these two, mutually exclusive, events together and come to the (wrong) conclusion that the ISM had confessed that the "doctored photo" was faked.Mother Jones said:
Captain R was acquitted of murdering the 13 year old girl. In that (military) trial the judge criticised poor transcriptions of radio evidence and the testimonials of "disgruntled soldiers". Captain R was also awarded compensation payout (link). Following that particular trial, Captain R decided to sue Ilana Dayan. In 2005 this site reported that the trial was ongoing. A search of the site reveals that this was the last entry on the issue. Why would they report the start of the trial and not the end of it? Also, my genius Googling skills also threw nothing else up (a story like this would definitely have made it into Haaretz or JPost). If there was an outcome to this trial (not that I have any idea about how long a libel trial normally takes?) then there would be something on the net about it - there isn't. It's possible rach18 confused the outcome of the military trial Captain R was acquitted from and received compensation from, with the libel case against Ilana Dayan (I assume both the military court and the Uvda programme used the same recording)
Anyway, that's what I found and if anyone has any evidence to suggest what I've written is not true then please let us know so we can put this silliness behind us!
FullyPlumped: I agree,people can make whatever they wish of me, and I DO prefer to be put on ignore rather than cursed. Not only is it stupid, cursing someone you do not know, although of anyone here I have done my best to allow people to know me (doing the unthinkable, such as posting under my real name, giving my actual adress down to number of my home, and so on.).
The kindest things I have heard from that ilk is that I am a Nazi because I have the number 18 attached to my name, or Baby Killer because I was one of almost 2 million people who have served my nation since its reestablishment. Whatever, in the end the truth is what it is and we are all entitled to make what WE will.
There is currently a post here now, on Gazans not being allowed, by Israel OF COURSE, to leave for crucial medical care. I posted in it. Again, asked to provide sources. I was asked by 2 people in a very civil manner and provided them (hyperlinks would not work but another poster WAS kind enough to affix a corrected one to their post and voila).
I am tired of explaining why I do not oblige the poster who initiated this thread over 3 sources. It was more than a year ago. I was verbally abused in the vilest ways by this person (boo hoo, but the issue is whether or not I am willing to waste persona time over an issue that is common knowledge in my country, for a person who uses words, and here it s again, cun$. Sorry, I am not willing a this point and this thread should show anyone fair minded just why that is.
Now, as for the "source" provided by "Grandma," I do not rely on Lee Kaplan whoever that person may be. I rely on actual facts. It is not the first time Reuters got taken to the cleaners, nothing new I am sure.
As for the veracity of the photos themseves, aside frm another long time poster here posting a long linked source on it, one photo has a non-existent treeline (it is on Phildelphi Road nd you will not find more than an isolated scrub tree in that part of Gaza, 800 meters from the line).
That is neither here nor there because in the next photos taken by the same man supposedly, on the same day, in the same field, there are no trees. That eventually caused Reuters to take ISM to task for providing photos they had been assured were authentic, or so Reuters claimed. Reuters issued a retraction after removing any further distribution of them.
The question "Grandma" wants "proof"of is whether or not ISM's leadership ever issued an apology over the matter.
The second and third questions "Grandma" has have to do with the case of a Druse Captain in the IDF who topped off a 13 year old "Palestinian" girl not too far from Ms.Corrie's unfortunate event.
The girl entered a Kill Zone, an area innundated with posters in Arabic, Hebrew, and English warning of this, walking fast in this zone, carrying a satchel, walking parallel to a man who acted nervous (not surprising by itself in a situation like that but when in conjunction), and then ran fast to the right into the Camp.
The teenaged girl then began running, and was adressed by PA and megaphone to stop and desist, in Arabic, and she continued carrying that satchel as she rushed in a direction where a ground position was placed. In other words, almost perfectly fitting the profile of a so called "Suicide Bomber" (a 15 year girl has already done the act, and younger teens have tried), she continued head on towards a squad of IDF (6 men) armed to the teeth during a period of heavy violence in the area .
She was taken down, and the Captain, known as Capt. R in the media at home, finished her.
It sounds cruel as I express it, and this upsets people, but it is a cruel part of the world and this is reality, not a ladies gardening club. His job was to do so. Wounded, a bomber need only press the button which is in the hand. It happens quite often and this is why a perfectly profiled person lost her life.
Noone knows why she acted in this manner, but coincidence caused her to lose her life.
Because of an intense media storm, both abroad and at home , ESPECIALLY an episode of a how called UVDA on Channel 2 t home, which replayed actual radio communications between the positions, especially the portion that included the Captain, he came under indictment and had his career ruined.
The thing was, the producer of the segment had the transmissions edited to have it seem that the Captain had excitedly (as in happy excited) murdered a 13 year old girl....quoting him saying, "Kill it even if it s a 3 year old, if it moves it dies."
Taken out of context it could seem incredibly callous and monstrous but taken in perfect context it comes across quite differently. He was not speaking literally of course when he spoke of 3 year olds, he was trying to get across the point to his men that vigilance and ROE are everything that matters in Operational Mode. He was correct.
He went on trial and the actual transcripts were played, and f course h was vindicated , restored to Service, and awarded quite a bit of cash.
He then sued the producer, Ms. Orbach, and her show.
"Grandma" is upset because I stated that she was sued for libel and lost.
As I stated earlier, she is now on trial for the same charge involving a prominent rabbi.
I was asked to source it, I was serving in the army, I have children in Israel, and obviously had my plate full and in fact was only home, when allowed, 1 to 1.5 days per week and was not going on line those days.
I did so on base, sometimes, to be honest, even at the position I manned.
I told "Grandma," although he/she was calling me a liar from the first post, that I would be happy to oblige,jut let me finish my last 2 or 3 (cannot remember the number) months of service. That would have been at the end of March in 2007, a year ago.
I was cursed,etc., etc., but did intend to keep my word. Instead I was extended until June 30th of 2007 and obviously things stayed as they were except that way before then I wa already being "called out" in every thread I posted in, and even in different forums as if that was not bizarre already.
That is the jist of it, people can make of it what they will.
The kindest things I have heard from that ilk is that I am a Nazi because I have the number 18 attached to my name, or Baby Killer because I was one of almost 2 million people who have served my nation since its reestablishment. Whatever, in the end the truth is what it is and we are all entitled to make what WE will.
There is currently a post here now, on Gazans not being allowed, by Israel OF COURSE, to leave for crucial medical care. I posted in it. Again, asked to provide sources. I was asked by 2 people in a very civil manner and provided them (hyperlinks would not work but another poster WAS kind enough to affix a corrected one to their post and voila).
I am tired of explaining why I do not oblige the poster who initiated this thread over 3 sources. It was more than a year ago. I was verbally abused in the vilest ways by this person (boo hoo, but the issue is whether or not I am willing to waste persona time over an issue that is common knowledge in my country, for a person who uses words, and here it s again, cun$. Sorry, I am not willing a this point and this thread should show anyone fair minded just why that is.
Now, as for the "source" provided by "Grandma," I do not rely on Lee Kaplan whoever that person may be. I rely on actual facts. It is not the first time Reuters got taken to the cleaners, nothing new I am sure.
As for the veracity of the photos themseves, aside frm another long time poster here posting a long linked source on it, one photo has a non-existent treeline (it is on Phildelphi Road nd you will not find more than an isolated scrub tree in that part of Gaza, 800 meters from the line).
That is neither here nor there because in the next photos taken by the same man supposedly, on the same day, in the same field, there are no trees. That eventually caused Reuters to take ISM to task for providing photos they had been assured were authentic, or so Reuters claimed. Reuters issued a retraction after removing any further distribution of them.
The question "Grandma" wants "proof"of is whether or not ISM's leadership ever issued an apology over the matter.
The second and third questions "Grandma" has have to do with the case of a Druse Captain in the IDF who topped off a 13 year old "Palestinian" girl not too far from Ms.Corrie's unfortunate event.
The girl entered a Kill Zone, an area innundated with posters in Arabic, Hebrew, and English warning of this, walking fast in this zone, carrying a satchel, walking parallel to a man who acted nervous (not surprising by itself in a situation like that but when in conjunction), and then ran fast to the right into the Camp.
The teenaged girl then began running, and was adressed by PA and megaphone to stop and desist, in Arabic, and she continued carrying that satchel as she rushed in a direction where a ground position was placed. In other words, almost perfectly fitting the profile of a so called "Suicide Bomber" (a 15 year girl has already done the act, and younger teens have tried), she continued head on towards a squad of IDF (6 men) armed to the teeth during a period of heavy violence in the area .
She was taken down, and the Captain, known as Capt. R in the media at home, finished her.
It sounds cruel as I express it, and this upsets people, but it is a cruel part of the world and this is reality, not a ladies gardening club. His job was to do so. Wounded, a bomber need only press the button which is in the hand. It happens quite often and this is why a perfectly profiled person lost her life.
Noone knows why she acted in this manner, but coincidence caused her to lose her life.
Because of an intense media storm, both abroad and at home , ESPECIALLY an episode of a how called UVDA on Channel 2 t home, which replayed actual radio communications between the positions, especially the portion that included the Captain, he came under indictment and had his career ruined.
The thing was, the producer of the segment had the transmissions edited to have it seem that the Captain had excitedly (as in happy excited) murdered a 13 year old girl....quoting him saying, "Kill it even if it s a 3 year old, if it moves it dies."
Taken out of context it could seem incredibly callous and monstrous but taken in perfect context it comes across quite differently. He was not speaking literally of course when he spoke of 3 year olds, he was trying to get across the point to his men that vigilance and ROE are everything that matters in Operational Mode. He was correct.
He went on trial and the actual transcripts were played, and f course h was vindicated , restored to Service, and awarded quite a bit of cash.
He then sued the producer, Ms. Orbach, and her show.
"Grandma" is upset because I stated that she was sued for libel and lost.
As I stated earlier, she is now on trial for the same charge involving a prominent rabbi.
I was asked to source it, I was serving in the army, I have children in Israel, and obviously had my plate full and in fact was only home, when allowed, 1 to 1.5 days per week and was not going on line those days.
I did so on base, sometimes, to be honest, even at the position I manned.
I told "Grandma," although he/she was calling me a liar from the first post, that I would be happy to oblige,jut let me finish my last 2 or 3 (cannot remember the number) months of service. That would have been at the end of March in 2007, a year ago.
I was cursed,etc., etc., but did intend to keep my word. Instead I was extended until June 30th of 2007 and obviously things stayed as they were except that way before then I wa already being "called out" in every thread I posted in, and even in different forums as if that was not bizarre already.
That is the jist of it, people can make of it what they will.
Fridge: Of course it is nothing but an antagonistic thread,that is transparent.
But I have to take issue with that "mom" nonsense. I have stated repeatedly, I only used that true example to point out the absurdity and atrociousness of the situation. I was called the name myself numerous times (but then THAT happens alot here does it not?).
I appreciate the tongue in cheek thoughts on it but why should anyone, no matter their views, be subjected to this on Urban (or anywhere else)?
Grandma You do NOT wind me up. As I take it,it means make angry or excited. I am oneof the most outwardly controlled people you would ever meet. As for what I feel inside, a bit of sadness that adults (assuming you are ofcourse,and not meant sarcastically) must act like this, a bit sad that others are subjected to this. Perhaps they perused this thread thinking it actually contained subject matter relating to a dynamic literally affecting more than 1 billion people, and instead found you using site bandwith as an exercise in ego.
I do not hate you. I find the notion of hating someone whose name you do not even know absurd. I feel sad for you because you have literally ridden me for more than a year. Tenacity is admirable in many situations but when it is perceived as obsession it can be quite ugly.
I also think it is quite clear that you do not give a fart in the wind about truth and facts. You insulted me from your first response to me about a year and a half ago. If it was about actually wanting truth, you would try to engage me in a more mature manner.
I am sure that this will just lead to more nonsense but maybe it will help. Time will tell.
But I have to take issue with that "mom" nonsense. I have stated repeatedly, I only used that true example to point out the absurdity and atrociousness of the situation. I was called the name myself numerous times (but then THAT happens alot here does it not?).
I appreciate the tongue in cheek thoughts on it but why should anyone, no matter their views, be subjected to this on Urban (or anywhere else)?
Grandma You do NOT wind me up. As I take it,it means make angry or excited. I am oneof the most outwardly controlled people you would ever meet. As for what I feel inside, a bit of sadness that adults (assuming you are ofcourse,and not meant sarcastically) must act like this, a bit sad that others are subjected to this. Perhaps they perused this thread thinking it actually contained subject matter relating to a dynamic literally affecting more than 1 billion people, and instead found you using site bandwith as an exercise in ego.
I do not hate you. I find the notion of hating someone whose name you do not even know absurd. I feel sad for you because you have literally ridden me for more than a year. Tenacity is admirable in many situations but when it is perceived as obsession it can be quite ugly.
I also think it is quite clear that you do not give a fart in the wind about truth and facts. You insulted me from your first response to me about a year and a half ago. If it was about actually wanting truth, you would try to engage me in a more mature manner.
I am sure that this will just lead to more nonsense but maybe it will help. Time will tell.
Rose:No offence, but I do not believe you peak or read Hebrew, do you? How then would you find judicial papers on the Orbach libel suit? Dayan was her maiden name so that may be holding you up but at this point I would not know if they have any English language stuff on the net about the case. We heard about night and day but then I was in the army.
As for the ISM apology, that does happen to be on the Net, but usually with pro-Zionist sources. I no longer care about the issue to be honest. Glad you get some mileage out of it.
I appreciate the conjecture, but I have never read anything called "Mother Jones" although I have seen the name mentioned online regarding American politics,etc.
The two events were not linked, but one and the same in my statement, and it is what it is.
Sure, people do get confused but me? Not in this case at least.
With ISM is difficult to search I find because all you get is propaganda from one side or another. All sorts of things pop up.
To be honest I have thought od just putting it out thee, meaning having someone at home fax or scan or whatever, relevant papers and articles, but to be honest it would be a complete waste of time on my part because for one, I aredy know the truth, why go through THAT trouble?
Mostly though, it is because I can guarantee you the response would be "That is all I asked, all this could have been avoided if you had done what you promised,etc." That is cool but s most can tell, it has not been about facts or proof it has been about showing people up and personalities and that is patently wrong.
As you say, half the threads in the forum have been derailed, and have been done so with talk of the nastiest kind. Enough is enough. If the poster cannot control themself then eventually, as with Moono, Mods EVENTUALLY MIGHT so something about it.
As for the ISM apology, that does happen to be on the Net, but usually with pro-Zionist sources. I no longer care about the issue to be honest. Glad you get some mileage out of it.
I appreciate the conjecture, but I have never read anything called "Mother Jones" although I have seen the name mentioned online regarding American politics,etc.
The two events were not linked, but one and the same in my statement, and it is what it is.
Sure, people do get confused but me? Not in this case at least.
With ISM is difficult to search I find because all you get is propaganda from one side or another. All sorts of things pop up.
To be honest I have thought od just putting it out thee, meaning having someone at home fax or scan or whatever, relevant papers and articles, but to be honest it would be a complete waste of time on my part because for one, I aredy know the truth, why go through THAT trouble?
Mostly though, it is because I can guarantee you the response would be "That is all I asked, all this could have been avoided if you had done what you promised,etc." That is cool but s most can tell, it has not been about facts or proof it has been about showing people up and personalities and that is patently wrong.
As you say, half the threads in the forum have been derailed, and have been done so with talk of the nastiest kind. Enough is enough. If the poster cannot control themself then eventually, as with Moono, Mods EVENTUALLY MIGHT so something about it.
which would send out an entirely different message...
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
To be perfectly honest, I couldn't give a shit either way whether you are right or the rest of the rabble are right. All I care is that every time a thread starts where you comment a load of people come and ruin it. As much as I may disagree with a lot of your views, I think a forum where everyone has the same opinion and rounds on any dissenting views is, well, fucking shit. I think its important (and more interesting) to have a variety of views. However, until this stupid episode is sorted out then any thread you post in will be derailed by people who are unwilling/incapable of string a coherent sentence together to argue against what you say in a pleasant way because they know it's easier for them to hurl abuse because of these questions they demand answers for. That's why I posted what I did on here and if I'm wrong, then you can provide links etc, but if you're wrong, then just say so and ignore anyone that gloats.
As for what I wrote, well I find it very strange that Israeli websites would write English articles about the start of a trial but them same sites would not write articles in English about the end of the trial. I've also found no pro-Zionist sources to say an apology happened, that would certainly be in English if it was anywhere...
So long as (a) those views are honestly held and (b) the people putting them forward are willing actually to discuss them - which cannot be done unless (c) they are prepared to answer the question "You claimed that X is a fact. You know this how?".
Otherwise, their "contributions" are, at best, just noise.
Grandma Death
Reconfiguring & Reconstructing
Ive asked you to not post in this thread unless you provide evidence-I'm not interested in more lies about your refusal to provide evidence. You've spent the majority of trying to defend yourself-this thread isn't about that. I want evidence-you're not being forthcoming with that so don't post.
More twisting of words. Thats the original claim You are lying once again rach.
Totally irrelevant to the claim you made and what was asked of you. Once again you are polluting this thread with unnecessary bullshit. I didn't ask why she was killed or how it came about. You made a two claims about the trial-so this is not relevant to those claims.
Again more lies. You claimed the trial was ongoing was still ongoing-that wasn't the case was it. You also claimed the producers of the show admitted their section was 'pure fantasy'......no mention of that in your long winded spiel?
Yet you continued to post on this forum even when you claimed you were unable to do so. Again you are lying rach-I can pull up evidence of this. Why are you continuing to dig yourself in a deeper hole?
More lies. Again do you wish for me to illustrate to you your further dishonesty?
Rach-once again unless you are able to provide the conclusive evidence I suggest you stay out of this thread and leave to to posters like Cyber Rose who at the very least attempted to provide the evidence.
- Status
