Prince Harry

[8ball]

Well obviously. I don’t get your point, sorry.

Sometimes there can be an element of accusation of deceitfulness.

 

[ddraig]

Well obviously. I don’t get your point, sorry.

If someone is described as "they could pass for white" why do you think that would be seen to be a benefit by some/many?

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

It means both pretends to be and is perceived to be.

Oh, sorry I didn’t mean it like that.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Pretty common for the non-white members to kind of think of themselves and kin in terms of a ranking of relative white/blackness too ime. Sadly heard my Mum come out with something quite racist a while back about someone much 'blacker' than her. The internalised stuff can come out in ways that are rather tragic.

Exactly, colourism. An element of applied and internalised racism.

 

[killer b]

with 'pass', there is an implied 'fail'. and for some reason no-one ever says 'well, they could pass for black'

 

[Artaxerxes]

She and Oprah seem to have got to known a little better than at her wedding. They'd met once before. For a few minutes. And who gets a front row seat..? Not her old man, no. The Queen of US Daytime TV.

That's a three year plan.

Her old man has spent the last few decades being a cunt by most accounts so he's lucky he got a fucking invite.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

with 'pass', there is an implied 'fail'. and for some reason no-one ever says 'well, they could pass for black'

Well I can assure you I wasn’t implying anything.

 

[8ball]

Exactly, colourism. Applied and internalised racism.

Colourism - that's it - the word had totally escaped me there.

I think there's something that's kind of an adjunct to colourism linked to ethnic differences in feature shape.
Saw this when an old housemate of mine had someone say to him "if you had white skin you'd be a white man".
It was on the quote board in the house for a while but we all knew what was meant.

Someone in the media summed it up recently when they said they didn't think Meghan would have gotten a foot in the door if she'd looked like Venus Williams.

 

[killer b]

Well I can assure you I wasn’t implying anything.

I know - you were asking why it was a loaded term is all. That's why it's a loaded term.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I know - you were asking why it was a loaded term is all. That's why it's a loaded term.

I get you. Didn’t think of it like that.

 

[8ball]

with 'pass', there is an implied 'fail'. and for some reason no-one ever says 'well, they could pass for black'

Interesting. I seem to "pass for Persian" as far as the guys at the corner shop are concerned, but this might be a niche usage.

 

[D'wards]

Pretty common for the non-white members to kind of think of themselves and kin in terms of a ranking of relative white/blackness too ime. Sadly heard my Mum come out with something quite racist a while back about someone much 'blacker' than her. The internalised stuff can come out in ways that are rather tragic.

I'm white but do have a lot of black colleagues and a few black friends.

I have realised that there's loads of inter-black politics that whites are largely unaware of and its none of our business tbh

 

[Treacle Toes]

Interesting. I seem to "pass for Persian" as far as the guys at the corner shop are concerned, but this might be a niche usage.

The 'looks like' is about phenotype...people make assumptions and associations based on their experiences.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

 

[8ball]

To be fair, I think with Meghan part of the idea was explicitly to bring in some new genes.

I don't mean from Harry's perspective, I mean in terms of some early acceptance by senior Royals. I mean, how many repeats of Andrew and Edward can they really afford?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

To be fair, I think with Meghan part of the idea was explicitly to bring in some new genes.

A bit like the plot of Get Out.

 

[8ball]

A bit like the plot of Get Out.

I had to Google it, not knowing the film.

Well.. not quite exactly like that.

 

[maomao]

To be fair, I think with Meghan part of the idea was explicitly to bring in some new genes.

I don't mean from Harry's perspective, I mean in terms of some early acceptance by senior Royals. I mean, how many repeats of Andrew and Edward can they really afford?

But he's a younger son so it wouldn't affect the proper, half a chance of being monarch, royals. Kate and William are already churning out the Annes and Andrews of tomorrow. Archie is just a Eugenie.

 

[ska invita]

I have realised that there's loads of inter-black politics that whites are largely unaware of and its none of our business tbh

.....as a rule of thumb i think all politics of prejudice should be brought out in the open and exposed for what it is

 

[8ball]

But he's a younger son so it wouldn't affect the proper, half a chance of being monarch, royals. Kate and William are already churning out the Annes and Andrews of tomorrow. Archie is just a Eugenie.

A very good point. Still brings an element of diversity to the general milieu, and some wider perspectives, but it's a few car crashes away from changing the bloodline.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I'm white but do have a lot of black colleagues and a few black friends.

I have realised that there's loads of inter-black politics that whites are largely unaware of and its none of our business tbh

I disagree to some extent. If those politics are influenced by White people and in this case anti-black racism. White people are aware of racism, many though don't want to engage in those conversations or engage with what they may be perpetuating conciously/unconciously.

To be clear, no I don't think you should be butting in and insisting you know better however there is definately a place and need for White people to engage with conversations about anti-black racism.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

I disagree to some extent. If those politics are influenced by White people and in this case anti-black racism. White people are aware of racism, many though don't want to engage in those conversations or engage with what they may be perpetuating conciously/unconciously.

Genuine question here, but why do you keep capitalising the word white? Is there some sort of significance to it as more than merely a descriptive term?

 

[Treacle Toes]

This short interview with Bonnie Greer says a lot in terms of the general public level complexity/how people are reacting and why IMO...

 

[Treacle Toes]

Genuine question here, but why do you keep capitalising the word white? Is there some sort of significance to it as more than merely a descriptive term?

For the same reason I captialise the word Black when I am using it as a descriptive/adjective when talking about someone's/a group of people's 'racial' identity. In short., habit.

 

[8ball]

This short interview with Bonnie Greer says a lot in terms of the general public level complexity/how people are reacting and why IMO...

Fucking hell, that was like a gut punch at 3:05.

(I'd already put the 'like' on before I'd got that far into the video based on what Bonnie had said so far)

 

[D'wards]

I disagree to some extent. If those politics are influenced by White people and in this case anti-black racism. White people are aware of racism, many though don't want to engage in those conversations or engage with what they may be perpetuating conciously/unconciously.

To be clear, no I don't think you should be butting in and insisting you know better however there is definately a place and need for White people to engage with conversations about anti-black racism.

True but its hard to have anything pertinent to say when colleagues of Jamaican heritage are telling me why they dislike Nigerians, which a lot of them do.

I believe it goes both ways too, for different reasons.

I feel I'm getting into "whitesplaining" territory here though.
My point is, I think as a White bloke I'm best staying out of these type issues as I do not have the capacity to understand where either group is coming from.

 

[8ball]

True but its hard to have anything pertinent to say when colleagues of Jamaican heritage are telling me why they dislike Nigerians, which a lot of them do.

Don't know whether you remember the sitcom Desmond's - I thought they did a pretty good job of approaching this stuff on there a fair while back.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

For the same reason I captialise the word Black when I am using it as a descriptive/adjective when talking about someone's/a group of people's 'racial' identity. In short., habit.

Is there any reason why you usually capitalise the word black? I know some people make a conceptual distinction between the uppercase and lowercases uses. I’m not saying this is what you are doing, I’m just wondering if you can fill me in a bit on what that might be about. I’m not much of an academic.

 

[8ball]

Is there any reason why you usually capitalise the word black? I know some people make a conceptual distinction between the uppercase and lowercases uses. I’m not saying this is what you are doing, I’m just wondering if you can fill me in a bit on what that might be about. I’m not much of an academic.

I always read it as to do with distinguishing the social and political dimension from the 'colour' dimension, but very happy to be corrected by Rutita if I'm reading that wrong.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

Jesus, the BBC have got a 'live feed' of updates for the screening of the interview on ITV. For something that already aired last night.