Post-exit immigration policy - what should it be?

[ska invita]

Any thoughts?
I think I read in one of Paul Masons pieces him saying open door had to close.

 

[2hats]

Close the borders. The government needs to act fast to stem the tide of emigrants.

 

[CNT36]

Close the borders. The government needs to act fast to stem the tide of emigrants.

Let the fuckers go. The people I know on Facebook who said they'd leave if Leave won have been very quiet.

 

[2hats]

Let the fuckers go. The people I know on Facebook who said they'd leave if Leave won have been very quiet.

Perhaps they've gone somewhere?

 

[Sirena]

Do something sensible.

 

[phildwyer]

Encourage immigration from the commonwealth, instead of from Europe.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Automatically grant British citizenship to EU citizens already in the country. Have a planned number of visas given out each year based on a first-come first-serve basis. Do more to help refugees.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

Oh, and equal rights for migrant workers. None of this waiting 4 years for access to benefits/health services. A dual workforce only makes settled labour weaker. Also, stronger union representation, particularly in areas experience high rates of inward migration, to ensure a level playing field for all employees.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Oh, and equal rights for migrant workers. None of this waiting 4 years for access to benefits/health services. A dual workforce only makes settled labour weaker. Also, stronger union representation, particularly in areas experience high rates of inward migration, to ensure a level playing field for all employees.

This would actually make conditions better for British workers of course, but it's impossible to get right wingers to see this. If the problem is certain jobs only being advertised to east Europeans or whoever, then the solution is to close the loopholes which make it easier and cheaper to hire migrants not to stop migrants from working here.

If everyone gets sick pay, holiday pay, guaranteed hours, a minimum wage without deductions or company-shop scams, then everyone is better off. The question of unfair competition for jobs is removed.

 

[Spymaster]

Automatically grant British citizenship to EU citizens already in the country.

Assuming they want it.

 

[flypanam]

Automatically grant British citizenship to EU citizens already in the country.

No thanks. What the fuck could I do with that thing.

 

[ItWillNeverWork]

No thanks. What the fuck could I do with that thing.

Do what you want.

 

[ska invita]

What should Labour's policy be (if it exists by the end of the week)? Actually who cares... we'll just have to wait and see what the Torys decide.

 

[Duncan2]

Oh, and equal rights for migrant workers. None of this waiting 4 years for access to benefits/health services. A dual workforce only makes settled labour weaker. Also, stronger union representation, particularly in areas experience high rates of inward migration, to ensure a level playing field for all employees.

This point about the dual work-force is fairly key imo.Remainers point out how divisive the Brexit result is and ignore the extent to which free movement has been used by employers to divide the work-force against itself and effectively make industrial action a thing of the past in many sectors.

 

[Flavour]

the point is more about making it more difficult/impossible for employers to use immigrant labour to undercut pay.... not stopping them coming. if there's no material advantage for employers, naturally, less people will come. of course, many still will, and they are more than welcome to

 

[skyscraper101]

Automatically grant British citizenship to EU citizens already in the country.

Seems over-excessive. Keep things as-is for all current residents. Encourage visa free travel and work to all EU citizens as we would want also in the EU. I suspect in time we'd have to start hiring British workers as a preference and EU workers only if no suitable British employee can be found.

It'll be benefits curbs which I think would be the trade off. And restricted/visa-only access to future EU states.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

the point is more about making it more difficult/impossible for employers to use immigrant labour to undercut pay.... not stopping them coming. if there's no material advantage for employers, naturally, less people will come. of course, many still will, and they are more than welcome to

Is this correct? I don't know - it might be, it might be that within a capitalist system, not allowing extreme exploitation reduces the overall number of jobs available. Or it might not be - it might be that reducing exploitation creates more jobs, meaning more people will come to take them up.

 

[Duncan2]

the point is more about making it more difficult/impossible for employers to use immigrant labour to undercut pay.... not stopping them coming. if there's no material advantage for employers, naturally, less people will come. of course, many still will, and they are more than welcome to

fwiw Mason in a recent piece does seem to think that in the long term there will be a points-based system introduced,he mentions quotas and annual review.No doubt unrealistic expectations have been engendered but I honestly think that if something of the sort is not trialled there will be very widespread dissatisfaction indeed?

 

[SaskiaJayne]

Negotiate a Norway/Swiss model to allow full EU free trade access which is probably the only avenue open to us. This would of course include free movement of labour so as you were, no change. As pointed out what would help is good employment law to level the playing field. Forward with Corbyn.

 

[Duncan2]

Astonishing situation we now have.Seems likely or at least possible that there will be a new election shortly with no major party making a manifesto pledge to lead the country out of Europe.I can imagine in such an event that voter turnout might be a record low.

 

[sheothebudworths]

Any thoughts?
I think I read in one of Paul Masons pieces him saying open door had to close.

fwiw Mason in a recent piece does seem to think that in the long term there will be a points-based system introduced,he mentions quotas and annual review.No doubt unrealistic expectations have been engendered but I honestly think that if something of the sort is not trialled there will be very widespread dissatisfaction indeed?

This was the relevant part from that piece...

5. Adopt a new, progressive long-term migration policy: design a points based system designed to respond annually to demand from employers and predicted GDP growth; make parliament responsible for setting the immigration target annually on the basis of an independent expert report; the needs of the economy — plus the absolute duty to accept refugees fleeing war and torture — is what should set the target, not some arbitrary ceiling. And devote massively more resources than before to meeting the stresses migration places on local services.

6. Continue to demand Britain honours its duty to refugees to the tune of tens of thousands. Reassure existing migrant communities in Britain that they are safe, welcome and cannot be expelled as a result of Brexit. Offer all those who’ve come here from Europe under free movement rules the inalienable right to stay.

Brexit wins. An illusion dies. — Mosquito Ridge

 

[butchersapron]

CBI sets immigration policy then. Just without the political cover they currently have.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

CBI sets immigration policy then. Just without the political cover they currently have.

Yep. I'm slightly surprised by Mason for advocating this.

 

[butchersapron]

Yep. I'm slightly surprised by Mason for advocating this.

I'm not. It fits in perfectly with his post-capitalist fantasy meets immediate needs of Labour party mess.

 

[Duncan2]

It doesn't surprise me my guess is that Mason thinks that it is the least radical change to the current policy that would find acceptance given the massive emphasis on taking back control.

 

[co-op]

CBI sets immigration policy then. Just without the political cover they currently have.

It might be a bit out of kilter with the CBI's wishes e.g. if the immigration target is set low enough to allow workers to bargain wages up.

 

[butchersapron]

It might be a bit out of kilter with the CBI's wishes e.g. if the immigration target is set low enough to allow workers to bargain wages up.

It would be the CBI deciding though in reality. They're the shot callers in that little process.

 

[The39thStep]

Encourage immigration from the commonwealth, instead of from Europe.

It's harder to get in if you are from the commonwealth than it is if you are from Bulgaria.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Odd to hear 'progressive' and 'points-based' in the same sentence. 'points-based' means 'rich or educated at someone else's expense, preferably both, otherwise fuck off'. There is nothing progressive about that. A lottery would be more progressive than that.

 

[phildwyer]

It's harder to get in if you are from the commonwealth than it is if you are from Bulgaria.

That's what I'd like to see change.