Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

SpackleFrog said:
For me the main question is power. I can accept that a 38 year old and a 15 year old could possibly have a sexual encounter with no uneven power dynamic involved - although I think it would be very unusual. Rock stars and fawning young fans though - that's very, very different. I'm guessing yours didn't take you to a hotel fancier than anything you've ever seen and give you the purest coke you'd ever had in your life.

Having said all that - I'm deeply uncomfortable about any 38 year old that wants to sleep with anyone that young, if I'm being really honest.
Click to expand...
I was 17 when I had a knee tremble with Carl Burgess's mum in the rusty caravan outside our house in Runcorn. She was in her mid 40's. Sorry Carl. :oops:
 
Plumdaff said:
There's a difference between consensual sex with post pubescent girls - which is what Bowie and Peel did - and the rape of pre pubescent children, which is what Saville did. Both are pretty despicable, but I think there's an obvious qualitative difference and I also think, rightly or wrongly, that Saville's actions were worse. To use the parlance of this thread, I think Saville was a nonce, while I think Bowie and Peel engaged in some awful behaviour that maybe wouldn't be countenanced and hopefully would lead to prosecution now.
Click to expand...

agree

LiamO said:
b) I would recognise that how Bowie et al carried was wrong and exploitative but, as has been noted above, it was something that was both widespread and mostly sniggered at at the time. Anybody at the same shite these days would have no such excuses.

It seems a bit daft to me to project modern-day conventional wisdom onto the actions of people 40/50 years ago.
Click to expand...

LiamO said:
A bit like the way my mum's generation reacted to my generation starting to point out that far too many Priests were predatory nonce-cases.

* not calling Bowie this btw. Sexually exploiting (willing, keen even) young teenagers is in a long way down the scale from raping children.
Click to expand...

disagree
Plumdaff said:
I think all three should be discussed but I think that the way it was raised on the RIP thread was pretty troll-y and pathetic and calculated to provoke an emotional response.
Click to expand...

Well tbf I disagree with the use of 'troll-y'. Of course I expected a reaction, but so what?

The RIP was the only place IMO to post that video. That's where the sponsored Bowie-love-in was taking place.

My only mistake was responding to/biting when buffoons like 8den started giving me gyp - something I have refrained from on this thread, which has led to much hilarity when other posters have spanked his shrivelled little bottom for him.
 
SpackleFrog said:
For me the main question is power. I can accept that a 38 year old and a 15 year old could possibly have a sexual encounter with no uneven power dynamic involved - although I think it would be very unusual. Rock stars and fawning young fans though - that's very, very different. I'm guessing yours didn't take you to a hotel fancier than anything you've ever seen and give you the purest coke you'd ever had in your life.

Having said all that - I'm deeply uncomfortable about any 38 year old that wants to sleep with anyone that young, if I'm being really honest.
Click to expand...

Despite owning an 'Enjoy Cocaine' t-shirt bought in Loret de Mar I didn't have a clue what the fuck it was...the Midori was enough. I get the point about musicians and the power dynamic but but I don't believe there's anything to be gained but projecting victim status onto someone who doesn't feel like one.

If people really felt like that I think there'd be loads of bands who aren't protected by the status Bowie enjoys up in the dock.
 
LiamO said:
agree





disagree


Well tbf I disagree with the use of 'troll-y'. Of course I expected a reaction, but so what?

The RIP was the only place IMO to post that video. That's where the sponsored Bowie-love-in was taking place.

My only mistake was responding to/biting when buffoons like 8den started giving me gyp - something I have refrained from on this thread, which has led to much hilarity when other posters have spanked his shrivelled little bottom for him.
Click to expand...


Model of fucking restraint.

It's worth pointing out that nothing I've said is remotely different from what trashy, Guin, or other female posters have said.
 
trashpony said:
No but I think there were some sweeping generalisations earlier in the thread. I find it quite disturbing that some posters are chucking Saville, Bowie, Peel and Glitter into the same 'bad' box. I don't think that othering or lack of distinction is very helpful.
Click to expand...

LiamO said:
3. Posters who ventured that 'things were different back then' have basically been called apologists for noncery on here. I wonder would any of those who wailed the loudest turn up on either of the Bowie RIP threads with a somewhat more nuanced view?
Click to expand...

I think this thread has, for the most part, been free of such broad-stroking.
 
LiamO I think you should have started this thread. People, including me, were really upset and wanted to talk about that. Flawed though he is, he was the soundtrack to my life, the absolute number one musical influence on it, someone I've relied on in times of joy and pain my entire life. It's not covering up to not want someone walking into that accusing everyone of hypocrisy and excusing paedophila.
 
Last edited:
LiamO said:
The RIP was the only place IMO to post that video. That's where the sponsored Bowie-love-in was taking place.

My only mistake was responding to/biting when buffoons like 8den started giving me gyp - something I have refrained from on this thread, which has led to much hilarity when other posters have spanked his shrivelled little bottom for him.
Click to expand...

So it was a pre-emptive strike? Do you not think your message would have been better served on this thread than that?

And if 8den's posts rankle, what use or relevance is bringing in his postcode to the discussion?
 
Plumdaff said:
LiamO I think you should have started this thread. People, including me, were really upset and wanted to talk about that. Flawed though he is, he was the soundtrack to my life, the absolute number one musical influence on it, someone I've relied on in times of joy It's not covering up to not want someone walking into that accusing everyone of hypocrisy and excusing paedophila.
Click to expand...

fairynuff
 
killer b said:
Isn't that thread the appropriate place for the discussion? I don't remember talk of James brown's wife beating being banned from his RIP thread, or last week criticism of Lemmy's nazi memorabilia collection on his.

Bowie was a great artist, one of the very greatest. But Whitewashing him isn't right for anyone.
Click to expand...
Who's whitewashing him? This thread is here, isn't it? Where have I shown double standards re James Brown or Lemmy?
 
trashpony said:
No but I think there were some sweeping generalisations earlier in the thread. I find it quite disturbing that some posters are chucking Saville, Bowie, Peel and Glitter into the same 'bad' box. I don't think that othering or lack of distinction is very helpful.


Absolutely. And let's not forget that the age of consent was still 15 in Spain until last year.
Click to expand...
Are you sure it was 15 I thought it was 13 until changed in 2015
 
Plumdaff said:
To use the parlance of this thread, I think Saville was a nonce, while I think Bowie and Peel engaged in some awful behaviour that maybe wouldn't be countenanced and hopefully would lead to prosecution now
Click to expand...

not to derail with pedantry but nonce originally referred to sex criminal of any stripe, and I tend to use it in that context. I realise today most people use it to mean padophilia rather than sex with a post pubescent underage person. Was within a whisker of calling danczuk a nonce the other day but he isn't.
 
Mation said:
Who's whitewashing him? This thread is here, isn't it? Where have I shown double standards re James Brown or Lemmy?
Click to expand...
It is here, but I don't know why it's necessary - there's a perfectly good RIP thread where we could discuss all aspects of David Bowie. Except it's been banned.

I wasn't saying you were exhibiting double standards. Just that no-one complained it was too early or lacking in respect or whatever on those threads when people brought up stuff that wasn't bland RIPs or a heartfelt eulogy about what their music meant to them as a teenager.
 
killer b said:
It is here, but I don't know why it's necessary - there's a perfectly good RIP thread where we could discuss all aspects of David Bowie. Except it's been banned.

I wasn't saying you were exhibiting double standards. Just that no-one complained it was too early or lacking in respect or whatever on those threads when people brought up stuff that wasn't bland RIPs or a heartfelt eulogy about what their music meant to them as a teenager.
Click to expand...
I think quibbling about which thread it's on is stupid, if you're not someone who is grieving today. It's being discussed. That's good. Boo fucking hoo that people don't want you to on that particular thread. Presumably you can see why, if you are grieving, that the other thread would not feel like the right place for it.
 
Mation said:
I think quibbling about which thread it's on is stupid, if you're not someone who is grieving today. It's being discussed. That's good. Boo fucking hoo that people don't want you to on that particular thread. Presumably you can see why, if you are grieving, that the other thread would not feel like the right place for it.
Click to expand...
I cried this morning when I heard the news. I don't think that means I need to be shielded from some less comfortable aspects of DB's behaviour.
 
trashpony said:
Aargh - sorry yes, that was a typo. And was the whole point :facepalm:
Click to expand...
The "age of consent" varies from 14 to 17 in Europe, but I'm not really sure that some here today, gone tomorrow politicians putting some arbitrary age really means much.

Edit to add, For Austria, Germany, Portugal and Italy it is 14, and in France, the Czech Republic, Denmark, and Greece it is 15. Spain did have one of the lowest ages of consent on the continent at just 13, but recently agreed to raise this to 16.
 
killer b said:
I cried this morning when I heard the news. I don't think that means I need to be shielded from some less comfortable aspects of DB's behaviour.
Click to expand...
In what way are you being shielded? This thread is here. Is it hidden away in a secret forum to protect sensitive souls? Do you seriously not understand the desire to have somewhere just to be sad that someone has died?
 
DotCommunist said:
Chris Hadfield up on the ISS murdered Space Oddity, but got away with because he lives in space and was literally sitting in a tin can far above the world so it works
Click to expand...
it worked very well, despite him having a tache and coming from canada.
what do we get? some prick named tim who can't even make a phonecall and get it right.
 
Mation said:
In what way are you being shielded? This thread is here. Is it hidden away in a secret forum to protect sensitive souls? Do you seriously not understand the desire to have somewhere just to be sad that someone has died?
Click to expand...
I can understand the desire for that. I can also understand why others might desire to have a more rounded discussion, without being threatened with a banning.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

ElizabethofYork
Men’s violence against women and girls is a national emergency
34 35 36 37 38
Replies
1K
Views
44K
The39thStep
The39thStep
_Russ_
Rock against Racism
Replies
1
Views
230
19force8
19force8
hash tag
Starmergeddon time
2
Replies
42
Views
2K
hash tag
hash tag
N
Why do right-wing populists succeed?
2
Replies
45
Views
2K
nightowl
N
brogdale
Prime Minister Starmer dressed as...
Replies
29
Views
1K
Karl Masks
K
Back
Top Bottom