Hear hearBlagsta said:
Succinctness is a virtue.
Petition in favour of Brighton Terrace Drug Treatment centre
- Thread starter Bob
- Start date
Succinctness is a virtue.
). Please bump closer to the time.
Ol Nick
beer in Brixton
On the various meetings and from talking to them. I'd say that those without children are broadly (but not passionately) in favour. Those with children are more suspicious.gabi said:
The hardcore oppostion comes from those living nearby in Brighton Terrace.
It's been like this at every meeting on the subject that I've been to, anyway.
(Is it a "strange little spot of Brixton"? I don't get that bit. Is it because half the people have lived there for 30 years rather than being more recent incomers?)
Kiddo-Whizz
New Member
Rushy said:
To answer your 'questions' in your previous post. Firstly, there are NO treatment services in Brixton. The issue you raise regarding the needle exchange just shows you have simply not grasped the nature of a needle exchange. It's in the word itself 'EXCHANGE'. Drug users take home clean needles, together with cin-bins, and when they need new ones they must return the used ones. A database is used to check how many needles where taken at previous visit by each individual client and the returns are also logged in.
The reason for so many discarded needles in the BT area is BECAUSE there is no needle exchange in the area. Placing a needle exchange in the service would solve the problem of discarded needles. Simple, innit?
Good on you for doing this. I wish something like this happened for a all local issues. It really allows people to see what their elected representatives are doing and is a real boost to pushing for more transparency and democracy. In a halfway decent system this would all be done automatically by a local government website.Bob said:
TeeJay said:
A good start would be for Lambeth to stop publishing everything in PDF format
It makes it difficult to search for and collate information on where councillors stand. If they made the raw data avaliable or used web pages you could build some very smart websites.
I'd really like to have a stab at replicating something like theyworkforyou.com at a local level.
As far as other local issues go, MyBrixton.org is open content so anyone can use it for any local issue they want to.
Its good to have people doing it voluntarily, but you'd think that given that Lambeth manages to spend £XXX million a year, allowing people to access what is going on at the Town Hall, the basic information about local issues and being able - as a matter of routine - to have on record the views held by elected decision makers would be a service underpinning the democractic mandate for spedning this money and exercising these powers.memespring said:
This would free up local individuals who want to campaign on things to engage with the media, do further research and develop the arguments further.
It would also provide a more neutral, consistent and central resource that everyone could easily access as a starting point.
It seems bizarre that local tax payers have to struggle to get even this most basic of information from the body that is meant to be there serving them. It seesm at the moment that a lot of information gets out through gossip and personal contacts, which means that people have to be almost full-time town hall groupies to be able to be in the loop. Hardly transparent or democractic.
TeeJay said:
I totally agree. Lambeth's website is better than some but its primary purpose is as a properganda tool, rather than as a tool to egage with us what put them there.
Personally I think things like this are better done by volunteers (or at least one step removed from government). Government at any level always has contradictory pressures on it that make opening up information a secondary concern.
I'm planning something around opening up the Revitalise 'debate' at the mo. I'll post it up when it's done.
Rushy
basically a scrotum
Kiddo-Whizz said:
Easy, Tiger!
You are right of course: the basic concept of a needle exchange is very obvious from its name. Exactly how it works is not so obvious and so your answer is a little simplistic.
It is the smaller number of more conspicuous and chaotic users who will doubtless be the ones to find the schemes harder to use and cause any problems. Hence the 'questions' to you such as - what happens when someone does not exchange - are they dropped from the scheme? Do they then have to resort to a no-exchange-required supply? What is the incentive to exchange if the needles are already freely available elswhere? As nowhere is provided for injecting how will this reduce the frequency of the more chaotic users from using the same front gardens and doorsteps as ever? And why will users new to the area attracted by the exchange not also use these same areas to shoot-up? Etc...
Ol Nick
beer in Brixton
But so is this site! I love the "Arguments Against" link.memespring said:
Kiddo-Whizz
New Member
memespring said:
I agree, I am surprised at how many people from all over Lambeth have grasped the need for a centre based in central Brixton. But, call me cynical, I don't think Lambeth councillors give a hoot about people's opinion...unless of course it threatens their votes. Paul McGlone (Labour - ferndale ward) will definetely not get my vote at the next election.
Justice4all
New Member
Brigthon Terrace Planning Permission
It appears that the Planning Officers may be in favour for the centre being located at Brighton Terrace. For anyone interested in their submission this is the link to the .PDF document outlining their final submission
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C0B66968-8016-4FB9-A287-FA7A021D70A3/0/Agenda131205.pdf
It is a large-ish document so be patient if you have a slow connection as it may take a while to download.
It would be useful for all in favour to attend the final planning meeting at the Town Hall on Tuesday 13th December at 7pm
It appears that the Planning Officers may be in favour for the centre being located at Brighton Terrace. For anyone interested in their submission this is the link to the .PDF document outlining their final submission
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/rdonlyres/C0B66968-8016-4FB9-A287-FA7A021D70A3/0/Agenda131205.pdf
It is a large-ish document so be patient if you have a slow connection as it may take a while to download.
It would be useful for all in favour to attend the final planning meeting at the Town Hall on Tuesday 13th December at 7pm
Will do. Thanks.
Just printed it out and have had a quick look and it looks GREAT. For once in my life I have to say good old Lambeth planning officers.
Just printed it out and have had a quick look and it looks GREAT. For once in my life I have to say good old Lambeth planning officers.
Memespring, make sure you submit your monster petition to PAC before the deadline for submissions. On top of the fantastic job the planners have done (I NEVER thought I'd say that ), it could well deliver the coup de grace.
), it could well deliver the coup de grace.IntoStella said:Memespring, make sure you submit your monster petition to PAC before the deadline for submissions. On top of the fantastic job the planners have done (I NEVER thought I'd say that
mybrixton.org is slated to speak.
Kiddo-Whizz
New Member
Free Beneficial Herbs for All
When is the deadline to submit the petition? I still have a few people who want to sign it and need to get their signature on paper.
IntoStella said:Memespring, make sure you submit your monster petition to PAC before the deadline for submissions. On top of the fantastic job the planners have done (I NEVER thought I'd say that
When is the deadline to submit the petition? I still have a few people who want to sign it and need to get their signature on paper.
The officers are performing their function: taking heat for fence-sitting politicians in the run up to an election.IntoStella said:Will do. Thanks.
Just printed it out and have had a quick look and it looks GREAT. For once in my life I have to say good old Lambeth planning officers.
Kiddo-Whizz said:
AFAIK right up until the meeting - though obviously at some point we'll have to print it out.
I'm not sure why they have planning meetings on Tuesdays - it's a real pain for me since that's the one evening of the week which is difficult for me every week!
nicebutdim said:
Wrong for two reasons:
1. The politicians on the committe have to take a stance when it comes for a vote. Clearly a couple of them are anti (see their emails on mybrixton) and clearly one is pro (Brian Palmer - who proposed it).
2. Planning committees are quasi judicial. Hence the purpose of the officers is to advise the committee of the relevant laws so that the politicians can use their discretion when appropriate (so that it's not contested in a higher court). The officers legally have to express an opinion before it goes to the committee - members of the committee legally cannot express an opinion.
Ol Nick
beer in Brixton
The planning officers always supported the plan. The whole Lambeth bureacratic machine supported the plan. This whole fight has been between the liberal Lambeth juggernaut and a few tough people who can see when they're being shat on and will not be rolled over by lies and cant.IntoStella said:
You bandwagon-jumpers with your after-the-fact petition have never got your facts right, have never understood what's going on here. Why? Because you choose not to.
Ol Nick said:
Well, there's a balanced view! This isn't some battle of good and evil. What is playing out here is the inevitable tension between the greater good and genuine local interest. It would be true whereever this centre was proposed to be located. (Where would you put it Ol Nick, by the way?) That's difficult and it's what we have democratic processes for.
As for bandwagon-jumpers with after-the-fact petition, well, after the last planning meeting those opposing it considered it dead in the water - they said as much. Supporters were resigned to the Planning Officers going away and finding a fig-leaf for the committee. It's the level of local interest that's kept the issue live.
Kiddo-Whizz
New Member
Ol Nick said:
Do I detect some sour grapes?
happyshopper
Well-Known Member
Those of us who oppose the location of the Drug and Alcohol Treatment Centre in Brighton Terrace have repeatedly been challenged to come up with an alternative site. I would have more sympathy with this challenge if some sort of wider consultation had been undertaken about the location of the Centre at an earlier stage, i.e. before the Health Authority had already made up its mind. They say they considered 18(?) other sites but have concluded that Brighton Terrace is the only location in the whole of Lambeth that meets all the needs of the service.
This is simply impossible to accept. These decisions are always made on a balance of advantages and disadvantages and the residents of Brighton Terrace are entitled to see a fuller assessment of all the options that have been considered than has been offered so far. I see no reason for any guilt on the part of opponents, when it is the Health Authority which has mis-handled the situation.
I therefore reject to idea that there is any more responsibility on the opponents of the Brighton Terrace location to come up with an alternative site than there is on any other group of Lambeth residents.
However, having said all that, we have already suggested a number of other possibilities, particularly the ex-SEGAS offices in Acre Lane, and have not really had a satisfactory explanation as to why this is unacceptable. There is some housing across Acre Lane but this is a question of degree. I agree that no site is going to be perfect but that part of Acre Land is clearly much less of a residential location than Brighton Terrace - it is a main road and not a residential side-street. Transport links are also good for people from across the Borough, being on or near a number of axial bus routes and 5 to 10 minutes walk from two Underground stations. It could also offer some parking for clients, unlike Brighton Terrace. And finally, and crucially important, it is a good distance from the central Brixton drugs market.
There is also another available site that might be even more suitable, i.e. the premises at 18 Brixton Road. This is up near the Oval and is again on a main road and in the middle of what are mainly commercial rather than residential properties. Transport links are as good as or better than Brixton for serving people across the whole of Lambeth and it is away from the Brixton drugs market.
This is simply impossible to accept. These decisions are always made on a balance of advantages and disadvantages and the residents of Brighton Terrace are entitled to see a fuller assessment of all the options that have been considered than has been offered so far. I see no reason for any guilt on the part of opponents, when it is the Health Authority which has mis-handled the situation.
I therefore reject to idea that there is any more responsibility on the opponents of the Brighton Terrace location to come up with an alternative site than there is on any other group of Lambeth residents.
However, having said all that, we have already suggested a number of other possibilities, particularly the ex-SEGAS offices in Acre Lane, and have not really had a satisfactory explanation as to why this is unacceptable. There is some housing across Acre Lane but this is a question of degree. I agree that no site is going to be perfect but that part of Acre Land is clearly much less of a residential location than Brighton Terrace - it is a main road and not a residential side-street. Transport links are also good for people from across the Borough, being on or near a number of axial bus routes and 5 to 10 minutes walk from two Underground stations. It could also offer some parking for clients, unlike Brighton Terrace. And finally, and crucially important, it is a good distance from the central Brixton drugs market.
There is also another available site that might be even more suitable, i.e. the premises at 18 Brixton Road. This is up near the Oval and is again on a main road and in the middle of what are mainly commercial rather than residential properties. Transport links are as good as or better than Brixton for serving people across the whole of Lambeth and it is away from the Brixton drugs market.
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