Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[jayeola]

EDIT: Today Physorg.com is reporting that Apple has officially been awarded the multi-touch patent. Patent number 7,479,949 awards Apple ownership of software capable of "detecting one or more finger contacts with the touch screen display" to computing devices.

??

 

[editor]

In depth analysis of the strength of Apple's patent claims here:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/apple-vs-palm-the-in-depth-analysis/#continued

It seems that if things get dirty, Palm's got a veritable arsenal of older, potentially iPhone-smackin' patents up its sleeve, so let's hope common sense wins all round.

If you're going to say that the Pre crosses the boundaries of Apple's spring-back edge scrolling patent, you're really not in a position to say that the iPhone doesn't similarly ape Palm's call-management patent -- or the brightness patent, or the contacts patent, or the dim-during-sync patent, or... you get the idea.

Apple might be the more infamous IP juggernaut, but Palm has literally hundreds of patents of its own, and we managed to dig up four that seem to directly implicate the iPhone in just a few hours of searching. Imagine what Palm's lawyers could do, armed with their actual knowledge of what Palm owns and the motivation of some serious hourly fees.

 

[editor]

Great user comment frpm that link:

Most big businesses use patents like countries use nuclear weapons. They're a deterrent to stop other people attacking them. This is why Palm are confident that Apple won't sue - it would be mutually assured destruction.

It's a really good article too. Well done Engadget.

 

[Sunray]

very good article.

The best way to beat the competition is to release competition crushing products.

I think Apple will sue though because if they are seen to be doing nothing then people could see it as open season on their stuff.

 

[editor]

very good article.

The best way to beat the competition is to release competition crushing products.

Palm sure has got some mighty big patents up its sleeve and a great new phone, so let's hope Apple don't turn this into death by lawyer.

*in response to edit: I'm not sure Apple will sue because it seems that many of their patent claims aren't that strong in the first place (and open to side-stepping tweaking by Palm), while some of Palm's seem very solid.

 

[Sunray]

I'm thinking that they will sue and then come to some well publicised cross patent deal.
nobody loses face but a warning is sent?

Whats strange is that palm didn't sue?

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Maybe they just didn't have the funds to take the battle to a huge company like Apple?

 

[editor]

Maybe they just didn't have the funds to take the battle to a huge company like Apple?

Quite possible considering Apple's vast riches and Palm's heavily depleted coffers.

 

[editor]

I think Apple might face quite a backlash (from the tech press at least) if they do go ahead and try to crush Palm.

What's left? Devices from phone-heavy vendors like Samsung and LG? They were never really considered iPhone competitors and none bring much new to the fight. Because of that, we're left with the iPhone.

But when I saw the Palm Pre announced at CES, I was thrilled. Sure, some of its functionality looked similar to the iPhone, but it also provided enhancements to the iPhone's design and made me believe that for once, we have a possible "iPhone killer" coming our way.

It's not that I dislike the iPhone--it's the phone I use every day and I'm extremely happy with it. But I still believe that if the Palm Pre hits store shelves in its current state, we'll finally have a real competition in the market and both Apple and Palm will be forced to improve their devices to stay one step ahead of the other. And in the process, the consumers win.

Competition breeds innovation. Litigation does too, but not usually the right kind. If Palm can hold its own in a battle against Apple and bring the Pre to store shelves, I think we'll see dramatically improved products from both companies. That's my ultimate hope when the dust settles.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-10151598-17.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

 

[Sunray]

There is now so much talk in the press now, I'm wondering that there is no smoke without fire.

Is it just the press being the press and a reaction, like my instant reaction, to the fact that Steve Jobs, in his iPhone demo, put up a slide that said Patented, stoked with last weeks stand in CEO's words and that Palm have seemingly moved into that very space in a some form of patent brinkmanship.

Or is someone stirring the pot from somewhere?

 

[editor]

New video about the Pre with added Nokia taunting. Damn, it's looking hot!

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/29/palms-vp-of-design-shows-off-pre-features-scoffs-at-n95/

The UI looks very responsive even when the bloke had loads of apps open. The Amazon store looks good too. Browse the site, stream tunes, buy them and/or download it and then copy it over to your PC - with no DRM bollocks. It also syncs with iTunes.

edit:The Pre will have full MSExchange support, it will have the same abilities of a BB and then some (understatement). It uses a synergy platform for those functions which syncs/pushes/pulls everything via the cloud. Make no mistake about it, Palm is going after the business customers it lost to RIM years ago

 

[Sunray]

Ah, syncing with iTunes makes it a real Apple killer. I like the idea that I can put a new phone onto my iTunes and sync and it will restore everything as it was like on the previous Phone.

The Pod casts are great.

Blackberries are a tough one to try to muscle out because of the super duper encryption they use and connection with push email, to the Blackberry Enterprise Server. They have carved out that IBM style space, remember the ad 'Nobody's going to get fired for using RIM'.

Indian government asked for the master key due to concern that Blackberries could be used by terrorists and got told to fuck off by RIM.

 

[g force]

Yep can't really see it being a competitor to RIM on the corporate email stuff.

 

[Crispy]

I would guess that 'itunes sync' is limited to music only, not the full range of calendars, contacts, photos etc.

 

[editor]

I would guess that 'itunes sync' is limited to music only, not the full range of calendars, contacts, photos etc.

Well, yes. After all, that's what most people use iTunes for, I'd imagine.

 

[Crispy]

I was addressing Sunray's point:

I like the idea that I can put a new phone onto my iTunes and sync and it will restore everything as it was like on the previous Phone.

Which is rather more than I expect the Pre to do.

 

[Lazy Llama]

It also syncs with iTunes.

Does it? I didn't catch that bit in the video.

I thought iTunes would only communicate with Apple devices.

 

[editor]

I thought iTunes would only communicate with Apple devices.

No, I can already set iTunes to sync with my Palm.

http://www.normsoft.com/kb/idx/42/172/article/
http://www.markspace.com/products/palm/palm-sync-software.html


PS He mentions iTunes sync in the video.

 

[Crispy]

Does it? I didn't catch that bit in the video.

I thought iTunes would only communicate with Apple devices.

You can get plugins for all sorts, including generic USB storage

 

[editor]

You can just slam in an USB lead and the Pre appears as a generic USB drag and drop drive which is well handy. There's also Bluetooth tethering and Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR with A2DP stereo Bluetooth support. Which rather rocks.

 

[editor]

I was addressing Sunray's point:

Which is rather more than I expect the Pre to do.

Quite possibly so. Palm are more interested in working with Amazon's DRM free service (there's a streaming store browser onboard), but basic iTunes support may well prove appetising to some iPod users.

Here's the format support:

Audio Formats: MP3, AAC, AAC+, AMR, QCELP, WAV
Video Formats: MPEG-4, H.263, H.264
Image Formats: GIF, Animated GIF, JPEG, PNG, BMP

 

[editor]

Another video update from CES:

Man, we can't get enough Peter Skillman -- check out this 25-minute Pre hands-on demo Palm's VP of design did at CES.

Sure, there's some overlap with what we saw Matias Duarte demo during the announcement and the shorter Skillman video we saw yesterday, but there's also some stuff that slipped under the radar -- like the Touchstone's "gecko feet" in action at 1:48, a kinda-sorta unboxing at 2:29, an impressive email / IM / SMS multitasking demo at 12:10, and a peek at the video player at 20:09. Skillman also confirms that the Pre will do MMS, but video recording capability and Touchstone pricing remain a mystery.

There are also some friendly iPhone and BlackBerry comparisons -- amusingly, he asks for a phone from the audience so he can show off the comparatively higher quality of the Pre's screen and gets a little flustered when handed the super-high-density BlackBerry Bold. Whoops!

Overall, though, it's interesting to see Petey Skills basically just use the Pre for so long -- he throws quite a bit at it, and it never seems to hiccup or slow down, which is definitely encouraging. Video after the break.

Video here: http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/30/another-pre-hands-on-video-with-palms-vp-of-design/

 

[Lazy Llama]

PS He mentions iTunes sync in the video.

Can you tell me when because I've listened to it 3 times now and the word 'itunes' never passes his lips as far as I can tell?
Really.

Maybe it was another video?

 

[editor]

Can you tell me when because I've listened to it 3 times now and the word 'itunes' never passes his lips as far as I can tell?
Really.

Ok. I definitely heard it on one of the vids. Seeing as you can already do this on Palms with third party software, I can't see it being an issue.

 

[paolo]

Interesting stuff.

One minor tense correction re WebOS functionality. "You will" rather than "You can".

 

[Sunray]

You can just slam in an USB lead and the Pre appears as a generic USB drag and drop drive which is well handy. There's also Bluetooth tethering and Bluetooth 2.1 + EDR with A2DP stereo Bluetooth support. Which rather rocks.

The tethering is an issue for operators in the UK as they want to sell you dongles with 3g data sim's built in. Fuck knows why, some people are just buying the dongles, removing the sim and selling the dongles on ebay.

The A2DP is yet another way to prise me away from the iPhone, Apple don't support that bluetooth profile, bluetooth as a whole on the iPhone is crazy limited.

I can forgive Apple because I know how hard these things are to get all working at launch, but we are starting to approach 18 months from release and these are still not being addressed and everyone it appears, knows the iPhone feed back page. I'm not unhappy with the iPhone, just a little dismayed at the slow progress.

 

[editor]

Very interesting article on Apple's claim to 'multitouch':
http://i.gizmodo.com/5142445/dissecting-apples-multitouch-patent-can-it-stop-palm

 

[editor]

The Palm SIM-free pre-order price has been spotted at $399 which makes it very competitive.

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2009/01/palm-prē-preorder-price-399.html

 

[Kid_Eternity]

So that's £399 in the UK then...?

 

[editor]

So that's £399 in the UK then...?

Not if the Centro pricing was anything to go by.