Palm: Pre, webOS & app discussion

[paolo]

Some of the questions quoted above only have a symbolic value, for being asked.

Should devs be able to release trials? Err, like, doh!
Should devs all have to implement their own payment mechanisms, or should there be a communal facility? Hmm, now, let me see.

These aren't "discussions" Palm needs to have, it's showboating. Fair enough, and if they can cock a snook at other platforms, well that's all fine too. All part of the commercial game. But as proof of that Palm are good, and others are bad, it's a bit hollow. Like Google saying they wouldn't charge developers any commission for using their App Store. Which was genius misdirection.

 

[Sunray]

I can't say it particularly bothers me. Android's app store was only half built when it went live (it couldn't take any payments) and punters had no problems getting their hands on software. Apple's app store wasn't exactly glitch-free either, with their bizarre policy on seemingly randomly banning certain apps.

I think Palm are doing exactly the right thing in listening to developers and trying to come up with something that works well and encourages the growth of the community. Developers need to know what they're working with and Palm seem keen to encourage a dialogue.

Judging by the immense thought and innovation that has gone into the phone and OS so far, I'm confident that there'll be something useful in place come the launch date.

No, I really don't need any more information that a fully concrete platform and perhaps a decent SDK. I can get on and write an application with it.

I don't need anything more or less than that. I certainly don't need to get into a dialogue with Palm about the platform itself. That smaks of a lack of confidence in their ability. Its all their own work so far and its impressive, why change direction now?

 

[editor]

Some of the questions quoted above only have a symbolic value, for being asked.

Should devs be able to release trials? Err, like, doh!

Well, Apple don't seem to think so and they're rather successful at this smartphone malarkey.

These aren't "discussions" Palm needs to have, it's showboating.

Is it really? Have you actually read the article referred to?

 

[Crispy]

Um, the apple app store is full of 'lite' free versions of full apps.

 

[paolo]

Just to set the record straight, the article does not say that Palm asked these questions at all. One employee did, and Palm then had the blog taken down whilst they decided what to do about it. Developer discussion is promised to be reintroduced, but until it is, there is no way of confirming what questions Palm wants to entertain.

So I'll park my comments above, and wait and see what Palm's position will actually be.

 

[editor]

Um, the apple app store is full of 'lite' free versions of full apps.

But many, many apps do not offer trial versions and never have done.
Interesting discussion here http://blogs.oreilly.com/iphone/2008/12/the-app-store-effect.html

Just to set the record straight, the article does not say that Palm asked these questions at all. One employee did, and Palm then had the blog taken down whilst they decided what to do about it. Developer discussion is promised to be reintroduced, but until it is, there is no way of confirming what questions Palm wants to entertain.

Actually, it was taken down because they were overwhelmed by the response and decided that it would best be served by continuing the debate in Palm's new developer blog:

To Palm’s credit, though, after reviewing my post and the feedback it had received, there was a general recognition internally that the conversation was a great thing and that we’d like that conversation to continue. But rather than have it be a conversation between me and the developer community, we decided that it would be better if we could widen the conversation to include even more people at Palm. And so here we are.

This is your chance to let Palm know what you would and would not like to see on the webOS platform, in particular in areas related to:

* Application installation and updating
* Ecommerce (purchase, trials, coupons, etc.)
* Security (code signing, testing, anti-phishing, malware, etc)
* Browsing and searching for applications

http://pdnblog.palm.com/

 

[paolo]

In the new blog, the guy specifically says he's not acting as a representative of Palm.

E2a: And he also references misintepretation, phrases like 'Isn't it great that Palm's doing this'. Maybe he reads this thread.

 

[editor]

In the new blog, the guy specifically says he's not acting as a representative of Palm.

Um, and I've just linked to their official developer blog where they specifically ask for input from developers.

 

[paolo]

You've said "This is what Palm are doing"
He's specifically said that is misinterpreting things.

I can't argue on his behalf, so I give up.

 

[editor]

You've said "This is what Palm are doing"
He's specifically said that is misinterpreting things.

I can't argue on his behalf, so I give up.

Employee from Palm ask developers want they want. Is overwhelmed by the feedback so goes to his boss. Boss is keen to continue the dialogue and elects to move the discussion to the official developers blog.

Sure looks like official Palm policy to me.

 

[Structaural]

Judging by the wildly enthusistic hands-on reviews from CES, I'd say the phone is close to ready.

Seeing as it's such a revoltionary product, it makes a lot of sense to let developers and consumers know what's coming up.

Revolutionary? Are you sure?

 

[editor]

Revolutionary? Are you sure?

Yes. Absolutely. That's why it's created such a stir.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Yes. Absolutely. That's why it's created such a stir.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it revolutionary though. It's a big step forward certainly, but IMO it's (good, well thought out) evolution of current stuff, not anything earth shatteringly new.

TBH I think a great deal of the stir has been caused by the sheer surprise of Palm pulling something out of the bag when everyone had written them off

 

[editor]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it revolutionary though. It's a big step forward certainly, but IMO it's (good, well thought out) evolution of current stuff, not anything earth shatteringly new.

I'd say the webOS is revolutionary, as is the handset's gesture area and touchstone charger. It can do things no other smartphone can do and some of its functionality is going to be rapidly copied.

There's enough websites out there who agree with my description too, but let's not get hung up on the 'r' word!

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Hmmm not sure if revolutionary is the right words really. Seems evolutionary more than anything; ie someone thought of something like FriendsFeed and how that'd be cool as a phone...

 

[editor]

Hmmm not sure if revolutionary is the right words really. Seems evolutionary more than anything; ie someone thought of something like FriendsFeed and how that'd be cool as a phone...

Liek i said, there's enough websites out there who agree with my description, but let's not get hung up on the 'r' word.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Liek i said, there's enough websites out there who agree with my description, but let's not get hung up on the 'r' word.

I don't think anyone is 'hung up' on the word but it's a big word that deserves scrutiny!

 

[editor]

I don't think anyone is 'hung up' on the word but it's a big word that deserves scrutiny!

Call it what you like, but this sure seems a big step forward for mobiles:

Linked contacts – With Synergy, you have a single view that links your contacts from a variety of sources, so accessing them is easier than ever. For example, if you have the same contact listed in your Outlook, Google and Facebook accounts, Synergy recognizes that they’re the same person and links the information, presenting it to you as one listing. And if you update a contact on your webOS device, it also will be updated in your various accounts, whether on a personal computer or on the web.

Layered calendars – Your calendars can be seen on their own or layered together in a single view, combining work, family, friends, sports teams, or other interests. You can toggle to look at one calendar at a time, or see them all at a glance.

Combined messaging – Synergy lets you see all your conversations with the same person in a chat-style view, even if it started in IM and you want to reply with text messaging. You can also see who’s active in a buddy list right from contacts, and start a new conversation with just one touch.
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/090108/20090108006388.html?.v=1

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Call it what you like, but this sure seems a big step forward for mobiles:

I agree it is a big step forward but not sure about using pr infested terms like revolutionary...

 

[Sunray]

All things are evolutionary if its a mobile phone.

Revolution would be Palm saying the mobile phone is dead, we have invented this device for thought to thought transfer with in Eye visual display.

Creepy, but revolutionary.

 

[editor]

All things are evolutionary if its a mobile phone.

Revolution would be Palm saying the mobile phone is dead, we have invented this device for thought to thought transfer with in Eye visual display.

Creepy, but revolutionary.

Really? Many people cited the iPhone as being a revolutionary product in the mobile phone market and that didn't even match existing mobile technology in many areas.

Oh well....

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Really? Many people cited the iPhone as being a revolutionary product in the mobile phone market and that didn't even match existing mobile technology in many areas.

Oh well....

Those many people would be wrong.

 

[editor]

Those many people would be wrong.

No, they're not 'wrong.' They just happen to hold a different opinion to you.

I think Apple's iPhone made a 'markedly new or radical change' to the smartphone market.

 

[Crispy]

maybe the amount of revolution could be measured in degrees?
So, the Pre is a 196° revolution on the iphone?
Which was a 245° revolution on previous touchscreen phones?

 

[editor]

maybe the amount of revolution could be measured in degrees?
So, the Pre is a 196° revolution on the iphone?
Which was a 245° revolution on previous touchscreen phones?

I dunno. What do you think?

 

[Crispy]

I think it's a stupid idea because it quantifies something that's unquantifiable, and that words can mean whatever you want them to mean, and that I couldn't really care if something's 'revolutionary' or 'evolutionary - just that it's 'good'

 

[Sunray]

In the light of struggling to talk about a device that we know little about and is not going to come out for months, I totally disagree.

Revolution is something that changes the way people perceive things. Saying the Pre is revolutionary does make as much sense as the saying the iPhone is revolutionary. Both take existing ideas and make them better. That is evolution.

Revolution is where someone has a novel idea and applies it to some other problem to get somewhere in a giant step. Everyone goes 'fuck why didn't I think of that, so obvious' or in some cases very hard. There have been few revolutionary products in history IMO, as has been said, over used marketing bullshit these days. Most are just evolutionary stages, one good idea being built upon and refined over time. Some better than others.

The ford model T car was a revolutionary product, not because it was a car but the mass production of a car enabled economy scale, production lines, the idea anyone could own a car, etc etc. Pretty revolutionary and the effects of which still reverberate around the world today.

The mobile phone is revolutionary, not because its a phone but because we can now call standing just about anywhere in the world. That has enabled communication in places where phone lines were never going to be put in or the ones that were, were very expensive to use. The effects of this are still being felt in remote and rural communities. Who know where that will lead.

Given the the backdrop, the Palm Pre is good but not revolutionary.

 

[editor]

We'll soon find out if the law suits are going to start flying - Apple has just had their multi-touch patent confirmed:
http://news.worldofapple.com/archives/2009/01/26/apple-awarded-multi-touch-patent/

 

[Structaural]

I hope Apple lose if they go ahead. This isn't tech that should be only used by one company. It's like trying to patent ctrl-click.

More here:
http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/chris-dannen/techwatch/does-apple-really-own-multi-touch

 

[editor]

I hope Apple lose if they go ahead. This isn't tech that should be only used by one company. It's like trying to patent ctrl-click.

More here:
http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/chris-dannen/techwatch/does-apple-really-own-multi-touch

Totally agree. If Apple win, everyone else loses.