P2P contact tracing - a plausible/effective alternative to state surveillance?

[Mation]

I posted this in the worldwide coronavirus news thread earlier, but am not sure that's the place for it.

I'd really like to hear some techy opinion on how decentralised (open source?) apps might work to help with preventing the spread of CV19 illness, and whether they would be successful in limiting or stalling state surveillance.

Germany ditches centralized approach to app for COVID-19 contacts tracing

In Europe in recent weeks, a battle has raged between different groups backing centralized vs decentralized infrastructure for apps being fast-tracked by governments which will use Bluetooth-based smartphone proximity as a proxy for infection risk — in the hopes of supporting the public health response to the coronavirus by automating some contacts tracing.

Centralized approaches that have been proposed in the region would see pseudonymized proximity data stored and processed on a server controlled by a national authority, such as a healthcare service. However concerns have been raised about allowing authorities to scoop up citizens’ social graph, with privacy experts warning of the risk of function creep and even state surveillance.

Decentralized contacts tracing infrastructure, by contrast, means ephemeral IDs are stored locally on device — and only uploaded with a user’s permission after a confirmed COVID-19 diagnosis. A relay server is used to broadcast infected IDs — enabling devices to locally compute if there’s a risk that requires notification. So social graph data is not centralized.

Please do move this, mods, if this is also not the right place.

 

[cybershot]

If I was going to install a tracer app for covid-19, then this is the sort I'd be more willing to install, and here lies the problem. The data is only as good as the data that gets inputted. It relies heavily on people downloading, and installing any such kind of app to be useful. I just don't think people are going to install it quite frankly. Well not enough anyway. Also imagine the anxiety levels it would trigger in some people.

 

[Mation]

If I was going to install a tracer app for covid-19, then this is the sort I'd be more willing to install, and here lies the problem. The data is only as good as the data that gets inputted. It relies heavily on people downloading, and installing any such kind of app to be useful. I just don't think people are going to install it quite frankly. Well not enough anyway. Also imagine the anxiety levels it would trigger in some people.

Yup, so there'd no way I'd be installing a centralised app, but this kind seems much more reassuring. I guess I want to know whether that sense id based in reality. Would a P2P system be workable and useful?

 

[salem]

The BBC had a bit on it today

NHS rejects Apple-Google coronavirus app plan

The UK's contact-tracing app is set to use a "centralised" system that worries privacy experts.

www.bbc.co.uk

It'll surprise no one to see that the UK gov are bucking the trend and going for one that will report all back to base. Reassuringly "experts from GCHQ's National Cyber Security Centre have aided the effort."

 

[quimcunx]

I think this may be one of those issues where urban differs from the outside world. I think lots of people will be happy enough. And others will swallow their doubts for the cause. Lots of people just shrug at facebook etc.

 

[cybershot]

I think this may be one of those issues where urban differs from the outside world. I think lots of people will be happy enough. And others will swallow their doubts for the cause. Lots of people just shrug at facebook etc.

Until they realise their phone battery is hammered after the morning commute, and then they uninstall it.

 

[StoneRoad]

Also this sort of surveillance requires one to have a compatible phone (and my steam powered non-fancy one isn't it)
Not only that, one would have to carry said phone at all times. (and I frequently leave my phone inside the car or at home)

I have a phone to keep in contact when on long journeys / staying away from home and hardly use it even then.

 

[WouldBe]

I have a phone to keep in contact when on long journeys / staying away from home and hardly use it even then.

Same here. Forgot to take it out with me this morning while walking the dogs.

 

[2hats]

Analysis and critique of the Australian effort COVIDSafe (also centralised).

 

[Epona]

I have a healthy mistrust of any centralised effort to track where people are for any reason. A decentralised approach would be preferable.

However it's neither here nor there for me, I have a phone that is just to make calls/texts, I can't afford a data plan and don't have one.

 

[weltweit]

I don't have any Bluetooth devices so I always switch it off to save battery. Having it on will use more power.

I would prefer a decentralised system, interesting the Germans seem to be going that route. South Koreans seem accepting of their system (don't know if centralised or not), perhaps they trust their government not to abuse it, perhaps.

Anyhow, if it is to be ready for launch in a couple of weeks I expect the decision has been made, unless more than one development is underway.