okupational Hazard festie

[Dubversion]

I would argue that kids aren't safe in playground if anyone is tripping and the same applies to parties too.

i was being glib, LD, but the point stands - if a parent wants to take their kid to a party - especially one like Okupational Hazard which was very much different to a normal squat party - i think that's their call, and a good thing, provided they're responsible parents. if they're not responsible parents, that's another matter.. but it's blanket condemnation that irks me (and other posters) NOT specific instances of bad parenting

 

[han]

if a parent wants to take their kid to a party - especially one like Okupational Hazard which was very much different to a normal squat party - i think that's their call, and a good thing, provided they're responsible parents.

Can't argue with that!
As long as the kids are safe with a responible adult they're pretty much ok anywhere, imo...

 

[LDR]

especially one like Okupational Hazard which was very much different to a normal squat party

Am I missing something? How was Okupational Hazard different from a normal squat party? It was more crowded and dangerous than most I've been too.

 

[Onket]

Am I missing something? How was Okupational Hazard different from a normal squat party? It was more crowded and dangerous than most I've been too.

I agree.

And surely the point is that people are taking their kids to something which quite possibly will be a not particularly child-friendly situation. You just don't know with parties.

 

[Thora_v1]

Am I missing something? How was Okupational Hazard different from a normal squat party? It was more crowded and dangerous than most I've been too.

Indeed, didn't seem to differ from an average squat party to me. Squat parties just aren't safe environments - not for adults, let alone babies. At least an adult can weigh up the possible risks and choose to put themselves in that situation. Even parties with a "political" link (like Reclaim the Future) aren't guaranteed safe and fluffy - someone I know had to jump out of a window to avoid being stabbed at the last one. I just don't like kids to be around people taking drugs either - what if a child picks up a pill off the floor? All in all, I just really don't understand why people would want to put their children in that kind of environment.

 

[William of Walworth]

Even parties with a "political" link (like Reclaim the Future) aren't guaranteed safe and fluffy - someone I know had to jump out of a window to avoid being stabbed at the last one

I dispute this without independent proof ....

(Take it you mean the RTF in June ?)

 

[William of Walworth]

Am I missing something? How was Okupational Hazard different from a normal squat party? It was more crowded and dangerous than most I've been too.

I tend to agree with you that in terms of actual outcome, that's how last Saturday turned out, crowdedness and chaoswise, but I think Dub was trying to say that the plan and organisers were different, with different intentions. With a bigger building (read earlier posts about how that really cramped building was a last minute, desparate fallback) it could so easily have been very different, with some proper kids space and a much more structured, organised and beter supervised setup.

Dub knows the OH folks and I don't really, but it would be interesting to see his response ...

 

[Treacle Toes]

Have been watching this thread since Sunday as I didn't make it over to Greenwich myself and was interested to see what the feedback was like.....Have tried to resist getting involved in this 'kids in a squat party or not debate' but alasssssssssssss...

NO NO and trice no!!!!! Especially not big fuck off out of control ones like that......

Don't get me wrong, yes there are parties and festies that can be and indeed are child friendly and ultimately it is the parents call............have to say though every time I have seen kids in that kind of environment (meaning like that that went off on saturday night) it makes my toes curl.....even if they are in the quieter room, even if they aren't next to the speakers, even if they are not in danger of the po-going punks, even if they aren't witnessing people taking drugs.....there are just too many things/risks...

FFS, they are kids...and scarier still they are sometimes toddlers and babies....these places can sometimes be nightmares for adults like us and by this I mean even the atmosphere can sometimes twist my nut..........

I also take into account that the organisers very often plan it differently but they just can't guarantee it, especially not in that kind of venue and with that amount of people....

Not wanting to upset anyone, judge anyone or be offensive just my 1 pence worth.

 

[Dubversion]

if people can't see the intended (if not eventual) difference between the Okupational Hazard Festival (with the various attractions mentioned on the flyer) and a standard multi-rigger squat party or whatever, i despair, seriously

 

[Treacle Toes]

if people can't see the intended (if not eventual) difference between the Okupational Hazard Festival (with the various attractions mentioned on the flyer) and a standard multi-rigger squat party or whatever, i despair, seriously

Don't despair....can completely see the intended difference but unfortunately these things can't be guaranteed.

 

[Dubversion]

of course not. which is why the parents i knew there sensibly kept their kids in the relative comfort of the top floor and waited till the crush died down before leaving. thus avoiding any problems.

 

[Treacle Toes]

of course not. which is why the parents i knew there sensibly kept their kids in the relative comfort of the top floor and waited till the crush died down before leaving. thus avoiding any problems.

And that's the way it should have been, obviously.

 

[Dubversion]

And that's the way it should have been, obviously.

in which case - and i feel i'm repeating myself - it wasn't a problem with kids being there per se, although in the end circumstances weren't perhaps ideal. the problem, if there was one, would have been with irresponsible parents. but that could be a problem anywhere.

 

[aurora green]

if people can't see the intended (if not eventual) difference between the Okupational Hazard Festival (with the various attractions mentioned on the flyer) and a standard multi-rigger squat party or whatever, i despair, seriously

Absolutely.

In fact this thread is making me very depressed.

Todays parties are just the remnants of an altogether more optimistic and inspirational time.

All those tut tutting and finger waggers out there, should be using there energies to think about what they can do to improve parties rather than mearly consume them.

 

[Treacle Toes]

in which case - and i feel i'm repeating myself - it wasn't a problem with kids being there per se, although in the end circumstances weren't perhaps ideal. the problem, if there was one, would have been with irresponsible parents. but that could be a problem anywhere.

Take your point Dub, and again this stuff comes down to individual choice and opinion....some of us just wouldn't do it and therefore don't like to see it ....... different stokes for different folks and all that.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Absolutely.

In fact this thread is making me very depressed.

Todays parties are just the remnants of an altogether more optimistic and inspirational time.

All those tut tutting and finger waggers out there, should be using there energies to think about what they can do to improve parties rather than mearly consume them.

Good point Aurora, never intended to tut or finger wag at nobody...just gave my honest opinion to a point that was being discussed.

 

[Dubversion]

Absolutely.

In fact this thread is making me very depressed.

Todays parties are just the remnants of an altogether more optimistic and inspirational time.

All those tut tutting and finger waggers out there, should be using there energies to think about what they can do to improve parties rather than mearly consume them.

me too.

this isn't aimed specifically at anyone on this thread (although i'm sure somebody will decide to take it as such) but to me squat parties are not simply chemical arenas, spaces for the munted to get more munted. they're about more than that, are from a tradition that means more than that, and have a wider social / activist role and meaning.

but this seems to be increasingly forgotten. and that's a damn shame.

 

[LDR]

if people can't see the intended (if not eventual) difference between the Okupational Hazard Festival (with the various attractions mentioned on the flyer) and a standard multi-rigger squat party or whatever, i despair, seriously

Well, I still don't see a difference and you’ve yet to explain why. You can really be a patronising arse sometimes Dub.

If you think talking a kid to party in the middle of the night with loud music where drugs and drink are being consumed is responsible parenting, I despair, seriously.

 

[pootle]

Well, I still don't see a difference and you’ve yet to explain why.

For a start, most squat parties, as Dub said are multi rigger affairs. Secondly, the flyers and promotional stuff about the OH festival emphasised a "festival" - it was a sort of celebration and coming together of the squatting community, a slightly warped version of a conference, if you want. There was info, fundraising, awareness raising of squatting, whereas most squat parties have no agenda other than listening to music, weeing in stairwells and getting fucked on drugs in an environment where you can rack up lines withour fear of getting chucked out, and bring your own booze.

 

[Treacle Toes]

For a start, most squat parties, as Dub said are multi rigger affairs. Secondly, the flyers and promotional stuff about the OH festival emphasised a "festival" - it was a sort of celebration and coming together of the squatting community, a slightly warped version of a conference, if you want. There was info, fundraising, awareness raising of squatting, whereas most squat parties have no agenda other than listening to music, weeing in stairwells and getting fucked on drugs in an environment where you can rack up lines withour fear of getting chucked out, and bring your own booze.

All points relevant but it was in the middle of the night and there was loud music and there was the inevitable weeing on the stairs, getting fucked on drugs and alcohol which is why some still think that this party however the organisers intended it to be was not a place for kids.....

This debate will run and run....

 

[Dubversion]

If you think talking a kid to party in the middle of the night with loud music where drugs and drink are being consumed is responsible parenting, I despair, seriously.

do you think it's Ok to take kids to Glastonbury?

 

[LDR]

For a start, most squat parties, as Dub said are multi rigger affairs. Secondly, the flyers and promotional stuff about the OH festival emphasised a "festival" - it was a sort of celebration and coming together of the squatting community, a slightly warped version of a conference, if you want. There was info, fundraising, awareness raising of squatting, whereas most squat parties have no agenda other than listening to music, weeing in stairwells and getting fucked on drugs in an environment where you can rack up lines withour fear of getting chucked out, and bring your own booze.

Thanks for that.

I didn't see the flyer and when I got there, it certainly didn't feel like a "festival" and I did not see any info about fundraising and awareness, etc. I appreciate that maybe that's what the organisers wanted but it wasn't what I was expected and I suspect most others.

My point still stands that taking children to squat parties is still irresponsible.

 

[Treacle Toes]

do you think it's Ok to take kids to Glastonbury?

Glasto is another thing....given it's size and the variety of spaces yes I would take a kid there....that said I would also have a very different time to the ones I've had when i've been there as a lone adult....

 

[LDR]

do you think it's Ok to take kids to Glastonbury?

I wouldn't be taking any children out at night at Glastonbury amongst the drunk and the drugged and exposing them to very loud music.
I would stick to the children's area, which is specifically set aside for them.

I do understand that the Okupational Hazard Festival may have wanted a children's area like that. However, personally, I think it's naive to think that a festival in the middle night based in an abandoned building with loud music and drugged up people could accommodate that.

I’ve also taken on board what aurora green says about what we can do to improve parties rather than merely consume them, but I personally don’t believe children should be at parties where drink and drugs are going to be taken, especially in the middle of the night. Hell, I don’t even think kids should be in pubs.

One suggestion may be to have a separate place (different building altogether) away from the party, which could be something like a crèche where parents who wanted to attend parties could leave them.

 

[William of Walworth]

All those tut tutting and finger waggers out there, should be using there energies to think about what they can do to improve parties rather than mearly consume them.

I saw myself as taking a middle position -- my posts (I hope! ) were attempting to make clear that I was completely behind the idea (and actuality, when it happpens) of kid-friendly parties. Just had strong reservations of how it turned out this time in practice.

But I had no intention to fingerwag!
Sorry if it sounded like that ...

I also understand the pressures and strains the organisers were under, to try and secure their building. They did brilliantly against all sorts of hassles.

Aurora -- you're right that people should get more involved, that's a fair comment. I'm enthusiastic about the possibility mentioned by winston smith earlier, of an outdoor version of Okupational Hazard next year. I'm going to PM him and serifrat to offer help/involvement.

Also, if Reclaim the Future happens again next year, I'd be up for helping them as well in some way, you and one or two other Urbanites have the contacts and I don't, but maybe we can chat about that at some point

I've also not completely given up on the notion of an Urban75 festie in 2006, and my intention is to give that thread/plan more of a push soon.

 

[Dubversion]

My point still stands that taking children to squat parties is still irresponsible.

and if we were talking about a big techno multirigger, i'd agree - not perhaps that it's 'irresponsible', but that it's not a great idea.

I didn't see the flyer and when I got there, it certainly didn't feel like a "festival" and I did not see any info about fundraising and awareness, etc. I appreciate that maybe that's what the organisers wanted but it wasn't what I was expected

which is fair enough.. but even you must have been able to tell that although it didn't take the form the organisers might have hoped, it was also a far different beast to a regular techno squat party.

I suspect most others.

i think you're totally wrong about that part. the crowd was VERY different to a regular squat party - just look at how much older and more chilled the people were in the top floor room, and how many punks - hundreds! - there were in the downstairs room. i think you and a lot of other urbanites - and this is NOT a criticism of any kind - heard about a squat party and went along, but for whatever reason weren't aware that in many different ways it wasn't a 'normal' squat party.

 

[Dubversion]

One suggestion may be to have a separate place (different building altogether) away from the party, which could be something like a crèche where parents who wanted to attend parties could leave them.

bearing in mind how late they managed to find that building, how feasible do you think that would have been?

 

[LDR]

and if we were talking about a big techno multirigger, i'd agree - not perhaps that it's 'irresponsible', but that it's not a great idea.

Agreed.

which is fair enough.. but even you must have been able to tell that although it didn't take the form the organisers might have hoped, it was also a far different beast to a regular techno squat party.

Not sure I do agree. The music may have been different but for me at least the vibe was similar.

i think you're totally wrong about that part. the crowd was VERY different to a regular squat party - just look at how much older and more chilled the people were in the top floor room, and how many punks - hundreds! - there were in the downstairs room. i think you and a lot of other urbanites - and this is NOT a criticism of any kind - heard about a squat party and went along, but for whatever reason weren't aware that in many different ways it wasn't a 'normal' squat party.

You're right. That's exactly the reason went. I heard there was a party to attend that night. But I still stand by my point that it wasn't so different from a 'normal' squat party.

bearing in mind how late they managed to find that building, how feasible do you think that would have been?

Yes, good point. However, shouldn't parents cut their losses and not attend if they couldn’t guarantee their kids safety, which for me is the bottom line.

PS. Sorry about the patronising arse comment. I'm sick and grumpy through lack of sleep.

 

[Dubversion]

PS. Sorry about the patronising arse comment. I'm sick and grumpy through lack of sleep.

ah, but i CAN be a patronising arse too

i don't think we're going to agree about this particular party, but that's cool. i for one went for the precise reason that i knew it was going to be a different beast to a normal squat party, and i think a lot of people did the same. the reality may have been different but still fun.

also, as i said earlier, we got there quite early and it wasn't so bad. if parents arrived then (and some i know did) they may well not have realised that the problems were coming until it was actually too late to leave. getting there at 11.30, things were very different than they were when you arrived, honestly

 

[LDR]

And on that note we hug and the world is suddenly a better place again.