okupational Hazard festie

[Kameron]

i think Sir Belchalot was referring to younger people too.

I don't think the under fives have any place in an environment like that. Collective Futures, may be where there is some level of organisation surrounding the children but if you turned up there with your babe in arms then I think you'd have to be insane to queue up in that crowd with the odd knife fight no less (that was sweet BTW but they saw their senses before they cut each other or anyone trying to get out the way).

squats aren't solely the preserve of anarkids, you know

Of course; I like don't know anyone who isn't a Euro-punk who goes to squat parties; give us a break.

 

[Dubversion]

since people wouldn't have known what the conditions were going to be like before they got there, that point is irrelevant surely?

 

[Crispy]

I agree with Thora too. There was one on the top floor without shoes which is pretty dangerous IMO.

The kids I saw were fairly well behind the bar on the top floor and under supervision - I guess that's ok as long as they don't escape. Still, not a great idea - all sorts of unpredictable things could happen at a place like that, where kids could get into real danger.

 

[William of Walworth]

i hope stig didn't spot me checking hers out for tensile strength

Do explain ....

 

[Kameron]

since people wouldn't have known what the conditions were going to be like before they got there, that point is irrelevant surely?

So. If you were there early before it got very crowded and you see it develop as that party did you leave. These people weren't on their way out when I saw them.

 

[Dubversion]

Do explain ....

we were going to make escape ropes out of dreadlocks and abseil to safety

 

[Dubversion]

So. If you were there early before it got very crowded and you see it develop as that party did you leave. These people weren't on their way out when I saw them.

well i didn't speak to them all individually but the people i knew there with kids were happy on the top floor and not seemingly concerned. one person did try and leave with her kid, saw how busy it was and stayed a bit longer till it calmed down.

 

[William of Walworth]

The kids I saw were fairly well behind the bar on the top floor and under supervision - I guess that's ok as long as they don't escape. Still, not a great idea - all sorts of unpredictable things could happen at a place like that, where kids could get into real danger.

That tends to be my reaction too ....

It was OK with kids at Collective Futures in June, but that was a much bigger building and a more structured setup..

I do take Dub's point about not being able to predict in advance what it would have been like, but it COULD (potentially) have been dangerous with the extreme crowds, I hope those kids really were being supervised properly (didn't see much of them myself, to be honest).

 

[William of Walworth]

we were going to make escape ropes out of dreadlocks and abseil to safety

OK no worries

 

[Kameron]

The kids I saw were fairly well behind the bar on the top floor and under supervision - I guess that's ok as long as they don't escape. Still, not a great idea - all sorts of unpredictable things could happen at a place like that, where kids could get into real danger.

Look, I'm not saying that it isn't possible to look after your kids in that environment, particularly behind the bar or in the domestic areas of that building but I saw some examples where I didn't think that was the case. Nothing as bad as the August Bank holiday Manik party in Wood Green though to be fair.

 

[aurora green]

The first three hours were fucking mental - I was still a bit jumpy from the crap with the police at the bookfair, and was seriously convinced we might all die. All the people who brought small children to a FUCKING SQUAT PARTY were really pissing me off too. So tempted to call social services...

This is one of the reasons I didn't come this weekend. My babysitter fell through and whilst I did bring my small son to the Reclaim the Futures party earlier this year, I was so fucked off with anarcho-kidz telling me I shouldn't of brought him, I went home in a fair old mood. (lucky to catch me in my more mellow days, I say )
I think people really are missing the point, saying people shouldn't bring kids to parties. By occupying a space for ourselves and creating our own entertainment, we are able to create our own rules, an autonomous space where we can think differently. Out side the box, and as such, why shouldn't our events be family friendly? Most especially ones with any political connection.
Squatting is not the sole preserve of the childless.Two of my kids were born and have been raised in squats until quite recently, as have so many other kids.

 

[Sir Belchalot]

you'd have to be insane to queue up in that crowd

Probably why the door staff were letting them in first. I took my kid to squat parties from age 0 with no problems(still goes to them now she's 15 but goes with her mates instead). The only time I've seen a toddler hurt at a party it was by the rozzers. People look out for their mates' kids at these type of squat parties. Obviously not safe at many parties these days but that party was well organised, well lit and I didn't see any violence inside. Kids grow up better when you don't wrap them up in cotton wool.

 

[Onket]

Supervised or unsupervised it's pretty irresponsible to let your kid run around without shoes on at a party where there could be (and was in this case) broken glass around.

 

[Crispy]

I think people really are missing the point, saying people shouldn't bring kids to parties. By occupying a space for ourselves and creating our own entertainment, we are able to create our own rules, an autonomous space where we can think differently. Out side the box, and as such, why shouldn't our events be family friendly? Most especially ones with any political connection.
Squatting is not the sole preserve of the childless.Two of my kids were born and have been raised in squats until quite recently, as have so many other kids.

With you, with you. Child-friendly parties can and should and do happen. However, that was one party that was not especially child friendly (broken glass etc.) - If they were well supervised and kept well away from the mess and crowds, then I have no big problems - no harm was likely to happen.

 

[Dubversion]

thanks to aurora and belch for making the point i was trying to both more succinctly and from their own parenthood perspective.

 

[Dubversion]

However, that was one party that was not especially child friendly (broken glass etc.)

again, that would have involved precognition of how crowded / perilous the venue was.. when we arrived (and at that point the kids i knew were already there) things weren't bad at all

 

[Crispy]

again, that would have involved precognition of how crowded / perilous the venue was.. when we arrived (and at that point the kids i knew were already there) things weren't bad at all

Fair enough. Like I said, from what I saw the kids were safe enough. As long as adequate care was taken, I'm happy. Could've been better of course, but then precognition would have been needed.

There's a sliding scale, from safe, fluffy fenced field in the corner in of an outdoor party, to an unlit piss-filled basement full of broken glass and needles. This place was somewhere in between

 

[ChrisFilter]

but that's the point - as numerous people have said, it wasn't a regular squat party.

(bangs head on Filter)

Yeah, sorry, I meant in general, wasn't even at that party so wouldn't really be fair to comment.

I was also referring to parties, as opposed to kids growing up in squats.. some parties might be ok, but your average "get fucked and listen to tekno" party is no place for a kid in my opinion..

 

[William of Walworth]

I don't think people are questioning kids' presence out of hostility to kids as such, so much as out of concern for the possibly dangerous conditions.

I accept Dub's point about the conditions and crowdedness on Saturday not being easily predictable, but Crispy sums it up well I think ...

Aurora --on Saturday, it wouldn't so much have been the hostility of Thora or anarchakids that would have been problematic for you and your child, but the sheer chaos and crowdedness and all that ... I know you're experienced in all these scenes but it really wasn't ideal for kids on Sat (IMO anyway)

I agree that there should be as many kid-friendly parties and festivals as possible, but this one despite the hard work and good intentions of the organisers seemed really problematical (for kids, at least) on all sorts of levels in practice ....

I expext Sir B and others to say something different though, fair enough ...

 

[art of fact]

that was a bit sketchy... tripped out really hard for a while, but after that I was fine. The venue was a bit too rammed really and I ended up losing my girlfriend for most of the night, but thats expected really when your both mash up in a crowded squat.

I.T. were fucking sick as fuck, ended up splitting my lip later on running around in a circle pit aswell... Didnt really enjoy wading in piss too much... but overall I had a really good night and seen a lot of people I hadnt seen in a while aswell, which was nice

 

[shandy]

All the people who brought small children to a FUCKING SQUAT PARTY were really pissing me off too. So tempted to call social services...

To be fair though, once the kids started coming up on their drugs they all seemed a lot happier.

 

[William of Walworth]

I am sooo jealous of all of you who managed to get to see the Inner Terestrials ....... <frustrated >

Glad they rocked though hope they do more live stuff soon!

 

[ChrisFilter]

To be fair though, once the kids started coming up on their drugs they all seemed a lot happier.

 

[Thora_v1]

This is one of the reasons I didn't come this weekend. My babysitter fell through and whilst I did bring my small son to the Reclaim the Futures party earlier this year, I was so fucked off with anarcho-kidz telling me I shouldn't of brought him, I went home in a fair old mood. (lucky to catch me in my more mellow days, I say )
I think people really are missing the point, saying people shouldn't bring kids to parties. By occupying a space for ourselves and creating our own entertainment, we are able to create our own rules, an autonomous space where we can think differently. Out side the box, and as such, why shouldn't our events be family friendly? Most especially ones with any political connection.
Squatting is not the sole preserve of the childless.Two of my kids were born and have been raised in squats until quite recently, as have so many other kids.

I live in a squat with young children - and they're happy, healthy, well-cared for etc. Of course squatting isn't the preserve of the childless. But parking your baby in a pushchair next to a speaker in a building where the floor is covered in piss and punks are stabbing each other, then getting fucked on ketamine is not responsible parenting.

 

[han]

... parking your baby in a pushchair next to a speaker in a building where the floor is covered in piss and punks are stabbing each other, then getting fucked on ketamine is not responsible parenting.

Hear hear!

I once went to a party where a woman was snorting fat lines of K, with her baby on her back in a papoose! .... not good....

 

[Thora_v1]

Why the fuck shouldn't people take their kids to squat parties as long as they're not neglected.

Sure, as long as they're not neglected. And as far as I know, very loud techno is not good for my ears, let alone a toddler's.

 

[Dubversion]

thora / han - i don't want to see some mother snorting K next to their kid either, but you're conflating individual cases of apparent bad parenting with general statements that have been condemning the very presence of kids at such a party.

kids are safe in playgrounds, but not if the parent is tripping.

 

[William of Walworth]

Thora, you saw some punks stabbing each other, inside, or outside?

Cos it's out of order, wherever it was, but the only knife incident I heard about, was outside, ie the one Kameron mentioned further up the thread.

I kind of agree with some of what you're saying, and there was definitely some chaotic fullonness generally, but actual stabbing .... hmmmm.

 

[William of Walworth]

What Dub said... he was posting nearly the same time as me ...

 

[LDR]

kids are safe in playgrounds, but not if the parent is tripping.

I would argue that kids aren't safe in playground if anyone is tripping and the same applies to parties too.