Official; Israel most corrupt country in the West

[Grandma Death]

Panda/Nino: "Beta Israel made to submit to tests and treated as scum." Here is where failure to research is most evident. What kind of tests? Their liturgy does not match any known Jewish liturgy. They had never even heard of the Oral Law. As all Jews do, they clearly resembled the population among who they lived.

All these things come into play. Ethiopia is in Israel's geographical region so that it represents, at least among unsubsidised Arab populations [Saudis, UAE, etc] the highest standard of living for the entire region. It also has a higher standard than almost all Eastern European nations but I will get to that in a second. The point of course, is that the Israeli Immigration and Absorption Ministers were faced with a unified group claiming the Jewish "Right of Return."

No nation on the planet just throws open its doors and lays a welcome mat to any group seeking it. Said groups must pass standards administered by each individual nation. Here in Israel, it is matrilineal descent, plus any close family members.

The whole thing with the Beta Yisroel is that there was nothing to prove their Jewishness, not even the Chromosomal Modalities as they later turned out to have no relation [gentically] to most other Jews.

It was sorted out by historians and religious authorities [the Chief Rabbinates] who declared them to be directly descended from the Tribe of Dan. In the Biblical Era our people fought as mercanaries among surrounding nations. A garrison of Danim was sent to an island in the Nile, south of both Egypt and Nubia where they intermarried with locals. This was recorded in non-Jewish histories. It is clear that they lost contact and did a good job of increasing their number through natural ways and through local conversions so that they were able during the so called Middle Ages to establish one of four independant Jewish nations to exist outside our homeland.

Once this was verfefied by historians the Chief Rabbinate was able to make sense of many of the liturgical differences and they were finally officialy considered Jews.

There has been one very big problem since then. After the Jewish Kingdom there fell, they were treated VERY harshly by non-Jews, especially by the predominant Christains who enslaved them and often tatooed crosses on their foreheads. As with Sephardim and some other crypto-Jews, a portion among them still secretly held onto some of their ancient rituals so that they still considered themselves Jews although they had married into no-Jews for centuries [in some cases only decades].

The Beta Yisroel themselves petitioned for these later applicants for Aliyah to be disqualified. In many cases, people with no connection to the Jewish people merely sought the economic advantages that would come with an Israeli passport. As we speak, some are qualified, some are disqualified but it remains to be sorted.

Among former-Soviet Jews... There is a similar problem of economic immigrants, with a famous case involving a woman and her son who came here when he was 12. He was inducted into the IDF at 18 and it soon came out that he was in fact a neo-Nazi. The irony horrified a good many here and brought this issue to the forefront of manys' minds.

Since then, former-Soviets applying under the "Right" are scrutinised much more stringently. They did not have the same hurdles as the Beta. Not because of skin color [we already have many darker skinned Jews in Israel, including relatives of mine] but rather because they could avail themselves to modern technology and memorise and/or learn Jewish religious and cultural practices.

Truly ironically, former -Soviets now generally have a harder time than people from Ethiopia in proving their roots. I know because a second cousin from Trans-Diniester just made Aliyah and even with our family connection and very good documentation it was long, drawnout process.

This is a long post but it must be because as usual, people here try to portray Israel as a racist state, etc. without even knowing the first thing of which they talk about.

How come you have time to post such long posts and not time to back up the facts you spout?

Run along now.....Im still waiting.

 

[Lock&Light]

Run along now.....Im still waiting.

I can't understand how you can hope to illicit a response from an intelligent adult with this sort of infantile screeching.

 

[Grandma Death]

I can't understand how you can hope to illicit a response from an intelligent adult with this sort of infantile screeching.

Well perhaps if your hero didnt lie then I wouldnt have to resort to 'infantile screeching'

 

[rachamim18]

JohnnyCanuck: "If Israel treats black Jews as second class citizens,, it should not." Johnny, do you watch any news shows [seriously]? One can easily see that most Jews are darker than Anglos and that a fair share are as black as any African. If they were treated as second class citizens, you would not see them in uniform all over the place.

Israel has a stronger Hate Law than any nation in the world, bar none. While some Jews DO in fact have problems with Arabs [sadly], I have yet to meet an Israeli Jew who had a problem with anybody's skin. I have never heard it even raised as an issue except once on a bus by a newly arrived man from the former-USSR. He made a racial remark [Chooshi] towards a black man and was then stomped by more than a dozen Jewish men of all colors. People take bias very seriously here indeed.

I have lived some years in America and there is a group here, a cult but becoming closer to Jews everyday. They live in Dimona but came from Chicago in America and they came for religious reasons but stayed because they found that they could live without prejudice and it should be mentioned that they came 30 odd years before our Hate Law was codified.

Please do not believe propagandists like most of the people who post here.

"Rachamim saying he might leave." Funny, why in the world would people EVER wish to involve themselves in a dabte oriented forum with people that only hold opinions much like their own?

In fact, I get a good many p.m.s asking me why I even bother with this garbage. I often repeat the Talmudic dictum,"To save one life is to save the world." I also remind them that we Jews have taken a whole lot worse than a bunch of mostly teens repeating spurious propaganda. It is not painful to me, but sometimes it IS tedious.

Again my veracity is challenged. Again I give all my personal details [3rd time] and again people totally ignore it and instead merely wish me gone. Very sad the people who post here [most].

Nino, what is wrong with me posting on other boards? I have posted on this dozens of times. I post in English, Hebrew, Yiddish, Spanish, and mostly Arabic. I even post on forums run by so called "terrorist" groups because I believe people, underneath various exteriors, can manage to be civil to one another and expand their own horizons by interacting with people holding different world views. Sad that you and most here feel all should be the same as yourselves. What a boring and mundane world that would be.

In fact, aside from occasional BlueLight posts I really havent posted alot anywhere since coming home because of my rotations. Soon I will eb able to devote more time all around but as I said, depending how I feel in a bit you and yours may just get your wish.

 

[Lock&Light]

Well perhaps if your hero didnt lie then I wouldnt have to resort to 'infantile screeching'

Can you really not see how infantile it is to describe Rach as 'my hero'?

 

[Grandma Death]

Please do not believe propagandists like most of the people who post here.

I think thats extremely rich coming from a poster who does nothing but post propaganda he cant even back up.

 

[Lock&Light]

Soon I will eb able to devote more time all around but as I said, depending how I feel in a bit you and yours may just get your wish.

As Ronnie Barker used to say in "Porridge" - don't let the bastards grind you down.

 

[moono]

How come you have time to post such long posts and not time to back up the facts you spout?

That sort of logic would be alien to liarboy and interferes with L&L's content-free agenda.
Rachamaim should address Granny's demands and spend less time posing in his uberjew outfit.

May 2000: Palestinian refugees in Lebanon stream to the Israeli-Lebanese border for a view of their homeland, after the IDF ends its 18-year occupation of south Lebanon

 

[rachamim18]

Panda: Haven for a religion? Israel has NO official religion. It is the State of the Jewish PEOPLE. Before we codified our beliefs almost 4000 years ago we were a distinct and proud people. We remain today much the same. One find many secular Jews all over the world. You yourself claim to have Jewish family so I find yours a curious statement.


"Finite number of Beta Yisroel." In fact, most black skinned Jews here are not from Ethiopia. In my own family I have scores of blacks. Closest is my little nephew [not so little now]. We do not rate one's skin. A Jew is a Jew is a Jew [as long as one's matrilineal line is anyway]. We also accept converts so that one finds all kind of Jews.

I wonder, before making such a blanket condemnation like "Israel's racism," sdid you ever bother to research the subject? Have you ever even taken a look at Israel's laws? What about statistics both by the Govt. and by foreign NGOs?

It is a bit ironic [I think I have the meaning of irnoy right] that the "Palestinians" who also have a fair share of dark skinned and black people call the dark skinned among them by the Arabic term for slave. Almost all refuse to intermarry with blacks, hence one finds tribes that are ALL black like the one Bedua tribe in the Negev and 2 in Galilee, as well as certain Apartment blocks in Gaza. People will not even live near them! Yet here you are condeming the entire nation of Israel. You really missed the ball on this one.


"Johnny's claims about a Jewish exodus in France." Actually Johnny has a valid point. More Jews from France have come home than any other period in Israel's history, save for the 40s. As France's Arab and Islamic population soars more and more Jews find living there unsatisfactory. Personally, I am suprised any are living there at all after what happened in 91 [believe I memorised the year correctly] when people went into a Jewish graveyard in Provence that dated all the way back to the Roman era and dug up a newly interred elderly man's corpse and ran un umbrella through his rectum. This was the same year that a motorcyclist through a grenade into a Paris Jewish Center. The only guaranteed safe haven for Jews is Israel.


Moono: WhatEVER made you think that Israel limits immigration to Jews? Aside from Jews being a people, not a religion [that would be Judiasim Moono], Israel has immigrants from all etnicities and religions...including Arab!


Dandred: Aside from your insults, you assume that Arab nations would admit Jews as immigrants and most will not even allow a Jew to visit. Even if one is an American passport holder, if one admits one's Jewishness, one is barred from entering. Israel not only allows anyone to visit [within safety parameters], it has nearly a million Arab CITIZENS....including a few thousand Arabs who have received refugee status. Again, why have the Arab nations [save Jordan] ALWAYS refused citizenship to "Palestinians" living there?

Israel has not taken "Palestinian" land. There has never been a nation or a people called "Palestine/Palestinian" although a great many Arabs now call themselves by that label [since 1948]. In fact, if Gaza and the "West Bank" are to be construed as "Palestinian land," Israel ceded Gaza to the PA almost two years ago and is planning the same for 93% of the "West Bank" [with 7% of Israel's land to be traded for the missing 7%. lease research before condeming people.


Finally, Grandma DEath: As I said umpteenth time, after my current Reserve Duty is finished, I will make a couple of phone calls , p/u neccessary papers and upload them so you can do whatever it is you do. Why do you continue to monopolise entire threads with your expletive laden nonsense? IF you have something off subject to discuss with me, please relegate it to p.m. Thank you in advance.

 

[rachamim18]

Moono: Be specific. Also, the picture you have shown us is of Druse whose village straddles our border with Lebanon. "Palestinians" living in Lebanon would not need to peer through fences and I might also just remind you that the border there, save for one village which is pictured here [and that is to be changed due to rampant heroin smuggling], the border is haeveily fortified and mined. As usual, you have incorrect nonsense to bring threads offline.

 

[Lock&Light]

..... and interferes with L&L's content-free agenda.

It is you who lies, Moono.

My 'agenda' is certainly not content-free. I see eventual reconciliation as the only 'final solution' as any overwhelming military win for either side can only result in more centuries of hatred and misery.

Eventual reconciliation is a very distant target, but the establishing of two nations, living peacefully side by side would certainly bring the 'final solution' closer.

Each nation, or state would obviously have to be prepared to recognize the other's right to existence.

 

[nino_savatte]

"Johnny's claims about a Jewish exodus in France." Actually Johnny has a valid point. More Jews from France have come home than any other period in Israel's history, save for the 40s. As France's Arab and Islamic population soars more and more Jews find living there unsatisfactory. Personally, I am suprised any are living there at all after what happened in 91 [believe I memorised the year correctly] when people went into a Jewish graveyard in Provence that dated all the way back to the Roman era and dug up a newly interred elderly man's corpse and ran un umbrella through his rectum. This was the same year that a motorcyclist through a grenade into a Paris Jewish Center. The only guaranteed safe haven for Jews is Israel.

So you're trying to perpetuate the same myth: that there is a mass exodus of Jews from France. It's a lie and you both know it. Oddly enough, neither of you has ever had the guts to mention the fact that more Jews return to places like Germany than emigrate to Israel. You would much rather peddle myths and lies.

As we told JC2 before: the numbers of Jews leaving France do not an exodus (or a flight) make.

And this...

The only guaranteed safe haven for Jews is Israel

Anyone seeking a safe haven would do much better to consider other options. Israel is not safe.

 

[Grandma Death]

Finally, Grandma DEath: As I said umpteenth time, after my current Reserve Duty is finished, I will make a couple of phone calls , p/u neccessary papers and upload them so you can do whatever it is you do. Why do you continue to monopolise entire threads with your expletive laden nonsense? IF you have something off subject to discuss with me, please relegate it to p.m. Thank you in advance.

Because Im fed up of your skewed posts and factually incorrect points.

During a debate that you and I had you made several claims-you've been pressed consistently on the those claims and you havent been able to back them up.

I and several others on the ME forum are fed up with your lies and excuses.

Stop saying 'soon' you really are making a fool of yourself.


Ive watched your agenda laden posts with interest-you often make spurious claims and when pressed by other posters you hope that they will simply go away. Its simply not acceptable in the course of debate you post lies to bolster your case-you are despicable Rachamim.

Now please....if you will-no more excuses and post the facts back up your claims. When does your reserve duty finish?

 

[Dandred]

Dandred: Aside from your insults, you assume that Arab nations would admit Jews as immigrants

No I didn't. This is just more of your bullshit. Link to the post I made saying that......

 

[nino_savatte]

No I didn't. This is just more of your bullshit. Link to the post I made saying that......

Oddly enough, folk like R18 deliberately ignore the Jews that actually live in so-called Arab countries. Yemen, for instance.

 

[Dandred]

Oddly enough, folk like R18 deliberately ignore the Jews that actually live is so-called Arab countries. Yemen, for instance.

Also Iran which I know isn't an Arab nation, how many Iranians in Isareal?

 

[nino_savatte]

And Iran

Er, Iran is Persian.

 

[Dandred]

Er, Iran is Persian.

You posted while i was editing

 

[Lock&Light]

You posted while i was editing

Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.

 

[nino_savatte]

Also Iran which I know isn't an Arab nation, how many Iranians in Isareal?

I'm not sure. I know that there is a sizeable community and that it's been there for some time. I'll have a look.

 

[Dandred]

I'm not sure. I know that there is a sizeable community and that it's been there for some time. I'll have a look.

About 75,000 Persian jews in Israel, not sure how many of them would be from Iran though.

 

[Lock&Light]

About 75,000 Persian jews in Israel, not sure how many of them would be from Iran though.

I wonder where else so many persian jews could come from?

 

[moono]

L&L;

It is you who lies, Moono.

Oh, 'lies' now is it. You must be desperate for attention.

Rachamaim;

Moono: WhatEVER ....etc.

Run, Rachamaim, your lies have caught up with you.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

That's like saying if an African country was done away with her neighbours should just let people come over the boarders because they are black..... I find that racist.

I said 'Arab countries' because that's all there is around Palestine, aside from Israel.

 

[Dandred]

I wonder where else so many persian jews could come from?

Places other than Iran, obviously Persian Jews who have left the area now know as Iran and then their descendents immigrated to Isreal.

 

[Dandred]

I said 'Arab countries' because that's all there is around Palestine, aside from Israel.

I know what you said that's why I gave my example.

 

[jugularvein]

the corruption index by the 'transparency' organisation is interesting according to this:

cyprus, italy, czech republic, slovakia, turkey, croatia, poland, romania and serbia and montenegro are more corrupt than israel.

i don't have a link as it's a pdf but if you google 'annual index of coruption' you should find it

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

"I do remember you saying that you could "find a Zionist" to take on all of us 'evil haters of Israel'.

You 'remember' something I didn't say?

Get help now.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

I know what you said that's why I gave my example.

What example?

 

[nino_savatte]

You 'remember' something I didn't say?

Get help now.

No, it's you who needs the help: you can't tell the truth to save your life and rather than accept responsibility for your actions, you'd rather try and suggest that I "need help". It's dishonest but then, that's what I've come to expect of you.

I remember many of our previous encounters, Johnny, and you did say that you would find a Zionist for this forum. You don't remember because it would be inconvenient for you to do so.

Over to you, shyster.