NUS national protest against the cuts 10.11.10 [London]

[belboid]

I'm not saying anyone has justified political violence, just pointing out why it's stupid to do so. I would say political violence is only good as a means to an ends in very extreme circumstances e.g. Fascist invasion, against a Dictatorship. Rioting over having to cover some of the costs of your own higher education is not a legitimate course of action. I suspect hardly any of those involved haven’t even bothered with trying to engage with the political system.

How about when the 'democractically elected' government goes back on its specific pledges? When it makes a mockery of that 'democracy'? Whatever the issue, that is behaving in a dictatorial way, so, by your own argument, political violence is justified.

 

[TopCat]

The problem with justifying political violence and destruction of property is that it might be used by people who disagree with your cause. I wonder how people on this board would feel if a bunch of right-wing thugs smashed up a union office or broke the windows of their own parties office.

We would organise and then go batter the fuck out of them.

 

[rekil]

What did they say?!

Busy and can't watch anymore to see if they show that bit again. I was half listening the first time but I think she was going on about sites which had advertised the protest in advance. A couple of screenies from some facebook group and one from this place shown.

'What is an Urban?' will be her enlightening question...

'A real urbans yesterday', in Sky's new flaming torch font.

 

[moon23]

No they don't. Nice demonstration of the doublethink of linking legitimate political protest with terrorism tho. Fucking scum libdem cunt.

I'm not linking legitimate political demonstration with terrorism, I’m linking acts of political violence to terrorism and then only with regard to this sole aspect of seeking media attention through their extreme behaviour.

I have been highly critical in the past with ACPO linking legitimate protest to domestic extremism and terrorism, and remain so.

 

[belboid]

I have been highly critical in the past with ACPO linking legitimate protest to domestic extremism and terrorism, and remain so.

even tho that is exactply what you are doing. No surprise

 

[krtek a houby]

Whats the point, waste of bandwith innit...
I never argue with a fool, observers can find it hard to know who's who...

sigh... maybe we can get back on topic soon... it aint all about you...
x

No it's not about me in the slightest - I leave that to a few obsessives here - but I wish you'd back up your accusations; I have said I support the protesters last night, I just don't hold with any violence, however little. The few violent protesters were not representative of the majority of those on the demo. I fail to see how this "demonises" them

 

[AKA pseudonym]

No and No. Plus you are making sexist assumptions. It could have been a bird that passed it down.

i see what you did there..

 

[TopCat]

Incidentally Terrorist work on the same principle of thriving on the media coverage for their atrocities.

Terrorists now!

 

[Idris2002]

Busy and can't watch anymore to see if they show that bit again. I was half listening the first time but I think she was going on about sites which had advertised the protest in advance. A couple of screenies from some facebook group and one from this place shown.

'A real urbans yesterday', in Sky's new flaming torch font.

Not everyone on Urban is Irish, you know. It just feels that way sometimes.

 

[revol68]

I'm not linking legitimate political demonstration with terrorism, I’m linking acts of political violence to terrorism and then only with regard to this sole aspect of seeking media attention through their extreme behaviour.

I have been highly critical in the past with ACPO linking legitimate protest to domestic extremism and terrorism, and remain so.

The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were terrorism, "our" government are terrorists and the only thing they listen to is force, be it riots, general strikes, occupations and so on.

Get off your fucking cloud and pick a side you liberal cunt, or rather I should point out that you already have picked a side, that of the state.

 

[krtek a houby]

Not everyone on Urban is Irish, you know. It just feels that way sometimes.

 

[krtek a houby]

Get off your fucking cloud and pick a side you liberal cunt, or rather I should point out that you already have picked a side, that of the state.

 

[TopCat]

Get off your fucking cloud and pick a side you liberal cunt, or rather I should point out that you already have picked a side, that of the state.

Go revol!

 

[Streathamite]

"What do we want? Moderate change. When do we want it? No hurry."

i thought it was "when do we want it? IN DUE COURSE!"

 

[AKA pseudonym]

No it's not about me in the slightest - I leave that to a few obsessives here - but I wish you'd back up your accusations; I have said I support the protesters last night, I just don't hold with any violence, however little. The few violent protesters were not representative of the majority of those on the demo. I fail to see how this "demonises" them

last time for the hard of thinking... you have made the most posts on this thread and imo and others you have brought nothing of interest to the thread...
keep banging your one person drum.... plenty in the real world who post here think you is wrong...
go figure?
ARGGGHHHHHH i never ignore posters but u sure are coming close.. do me a favour and just ignore me please.. you seem to be good at ignoring anyones opinions so should come easy...
xoxoxo
Now what was the topic/ thread about again?

 

[Idris2002]

Before you can have shades of grey, you need two things - BLACK and WHITE.

 

[moon23]

You do have a point here belboid, I am very unhappy the Lib Dems did not stipulate that the coalition was formed on the basis that all electoral pledges should be honoured. Activists like myself did not work hard only to see promises broken.

However the Lib Dems do not have a majority within the government, so I think it’s reasonable that the majority parties e.g. Conservatives viewpoint is the one that dominates. To this extent I do not think the government can be said to have specifically broken it’s pledge.
What I am pleased about is that the Lib Dems have had the courage to sit around the table and improve upon the Browne report (that Labour commissioned and the Tories would implement in full) recommendations to ensure they are more progressive.

Only having to repay fees if you earn over £21K means those on low incomes will not have to struggle as a result of their education. It’s not too dissimilar to a graduate tax really. I’m also pleased there will be more help for students from the poorest backgrounds.

 

[TopCat]

You do have a point here belboid, I am very unhappy the Lib Dems did not stipulate that the coalition was formed on the basis that all electoral pledges should be honoured. Activists like myself did not work hard only to see promises broken.

However the Lib Dems do not have a majority within the government, so I think it’s reasonable that the majority parties e.g. Conservatives viewpoint is the one that dominates. To this extent I do not think the government can be said to have specifically broken it’s pledge.
What I am pleased about is that the Lib Dems have had the courage to sit around the table and improve upon the Browne report (that Labour commissioned and the Tories would implement in full) recommendations to ensure they are more progressive.

Only having to repay fees if you earn over £21K means those on low incomes will not have to struggle as a result of their education. It’s not too dissimilar to a graduate tax really. I’m also pleased there will be more help for students from the poorest backgrounds.

You wanker.

 

[kyser_soze]

However the Lib Dems do not have a majority within the government, so I think it’s reasonable that the majority parties e.g. Conservatives viewpoint is the one that dominates. To this extent I do not think the government can be said to have specifically broken it’s pledge.

Your scum collection of turncoats campaigned on a platform utterly opposed to what's happening with uni funding. You can expect this shit from the Tories, but I hope every single one of your councillors and MPs get kicked out over the next 5 years, and your scum party dies a death forever in British politics.

 

[moon23]

The invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan were terrorism, "our" government are terrorists and the only thing they listen to is force, be it riots, general strikes, occupations and so on.

Get off your fucking cloud and pick a side you liberal cunt, or rather I should point out that you already have picked a side, that of the state.

I think it's a category error to define the invasions of Iraq & Afghanistan as terrorism as they were actions of a sovereign nation. They were however morally wrong and I opposed them at them at the time through the ballot box, through legitimate demonstration and other means.

My instincts are for a liberal state with decentralised power. I'm certainly not all for the power of the state, unlike some of those who blanket oppose all cuts in public spending.

 

[Crispy]

Play the ball, not the man please.

 

[Vintage Paw]

You wanker.

Indeed.

 

[Random]

Only having to repay fees if you earn over £21K means those on low incomes will not have to struggle as a result of their education. It’s not too dissimilar to a graduate tax really. I’m also pleased there will be more help for students from the poorest backgrounds.

The millitant students have made it clear this isn't just about the student fees issue, but also about the cuts. Which are lethal and therefore should be stopped using appropriate force.

 

[ymu]

What; here or outside urban?

Anyone who has had much experience of activism, on or off urban.

I first got involved in activism with ISM, an organisation dedicated to strictly non-violent direct action in Palestine. They do not condemn political violence, because non-violence is a tactic, not an all encompassing philosophy. They use NVDA to try and open up space for those who have become disenfranchised from their own struggle by the extraordinary violence being used by both sides. Strict pacifists are welcome, but they'd get bloody short shrift if they started spouting off about their philosophy on activist time.

I very much doubt you've spent a second thinking about what constitutes violence and non-violence, or under what circumstances each is appropriate/necessary. Noone who had could come out with such santimonious misdirected bollocks.

 

[Random]

I think it's a category error to define the invasions of Iraq & Afghanistan as terrorism as they were actions of a sovereign nation.

There is such a thing as state terror. That's not a category error on your part, just an error.

 

[Fruitloop]

I think it's a category error to define the invasions of Iraq & Afghanistan as terrorism as they were actions of a sovereign nation. They were however morally wrong and I opposed them at them at the time through the ballot box, through legitimate demonstration and other means.

How much good did that do?

My instincts are for a liberal state with decentralised power. I'm certainly not all for the power of the state, unlike some of those who blanket oppose all cuts in public spending.

Don't be a berk. The power of the state is not diminished by cutting university funding or throwing people off benefits.

 

[kyser_soze]

I'm not linking legitimate political demonstration with terrorism, I’m linking acts of political violence to terrorism and then only with regard to this sole aspect of seeking media attention through their extreme behaviour.

I have been highly critical in the past with ACPO linking legitimate protest to domestic extremism and terrorism, and remain so.

You're linking some windows being smashed, and an eejit dropping a fire extinguisher off a building, with people being blown up. You're equating occupying the Tories office with 7/7.

Despite the glorious selection of words that can be used as invective in English, I can't begin to describe people like you.

 

[TopCat]

Play the ball, not the man please.

I have tried, with both hands but really. :0

 

[krtek a houby]

last time for the hard of thinking... you have made the most posts on this thread and imo and others you have brought nothing of interest to the thread...
keep banging your one person drum.... plenty in the real world who post here think you is wrong...
go figure?
ARGGGHHHHHH i never ignore posters but u sure are coming close.. do me a favour and just ignore me please.. you seem to be good at ignoring anyones opinions so should come easy...
xoxoxo
Now what was the topic/ thread about again?

I have stated my opinions, for what it's worth; and people like you have distorted them - don't blame me if your argument falls apart. As to whether it's interesting or not; that's up to the individual to work out. Frankly, I find it boring to have to explain what I've said a billion times over.

 

[Random]

You're linking some windows being smashed, and an eejit dropping a fire extinguisher off a building, with people being blown up. You're equating occupying the Tories office with 7/7.

Despite the glorious selection of words that can be used as invective in English, I can't begin to describe people like you.

moon was simply pointing out a particular similarity. I'm sure his next post was going to be about how smashing windows is also much like working in advertising.