National Walkout Against Fees 24.11.10

[killer b]

Ask those who tut and finger wag. All I'm asking is if the authorities actually want protests to become violent, then how does obliging them help?

we should draft a stern letter to the riot central planning office, and advise them in the strongest terms to avoid smashing up police vans next time.

 

[pk]

That was MY van, I am officially the Fuck Police. If people swore more often they be less inclined to smash shit up.

Pickmans - I doubt it somehow. Apart from a few truncheon magnets unless there's some seriously impossible scenario laid out that affects everyone, it'll be apathy as usual.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Some kid who was there blogged here.

http://thegreatunrest.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/seeing-by-the-fires-of-whitehall/

 

[treelover]

One of the most heartening things about many of the student protesters is that they say it won't affect them but they are protesting for future generation and poor and working class students who won't be able to go, maybe its me but I really didn't think this would happen again, that we wouldn't witness such altruism any more, but of course we had the school anti-war demos of 2003.

 

[Streathamite]

considering that the effect of the cuts hasn't really started to kick in yet, this is the most active and militant the yoot' have been for decades

 

[Dan U]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11839386

Beeb jurno says he witnessed it.

Piggies telling porkies? "And he jumped over the ticket barriers....."

There was a mother who came to look for her kid, quoted on the Guardian live blog thing complaining that she'd come to get her Daughter out of the kettle and ended up getting caught up in a mounted horse charge and had to run.

 

[ddraig]

good.
a whole swathe of people new to police lies that they've seen with their own eyes

 

[dennisr]

Just saw this on facebook which made me giggle:
"Constituency office of Lib Dem MP Simon Hughes being occupied by 10-20 student protesters"
He'll be pooping his pants about the effect on his future re-election

 

[pk]

Police lie with impunity. When was the last time you heard one one getting locked up for perjury?

 

[ferrelhadley]

There was a mother who came to look for her kid, quoted on the Guardian live blog thing complaining that she'd come to get her Daughter out of the kettle and ended up getting caught up in a mounted horse charge and had to run.

The Metropolitan police have stood by the Metrpolitan police commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson's assertion that he had "no record" of police officers on horseback charging at protesters.

A spokesman said: "Police horses were involved in the operation, but that did not involve charging the crowd."

He added: "I dare say they were doing the movements the horses do to help control the crowd for everyone's benefit, which has been a recognised tactic for many, many year, but no, police officers charging the crowd – we would say 'no they did not charging the crowd."

The spokesman did also add that charging is a "quite specific term"

here's an equivocator, that could
swear in both the scales against either scale;
who committed treason enough for God's sake,
yet could not equivocate to heaven: O, come
in, equivocator.

This being like an educated protest and shit

 

[moon23]

it's about tactics though isn't it? it appears the police deliberately left a van knowing full well what would happen, and they got exactly what they wanted.

the better tactics in this case for the protesters would of been to put a big fucking sign on the roof for the benefit of the BBC's sky cam with 'return to sender' written on it, and leaving it alone.

There will be plenty of opportunity in the future for more creative activities.

There is no evidence to suggest the van was left their on purpose, so it is currently a conspiracy theory. If it was left there on purpose then the result was that the protest gained far more press attention then it would have done otherwise. The police hardly needed a justification for penning people in after the violence earlier in the month.

There seemed plenty of people who were just looking to smash things up and have a fight with the police without much encouragement. They needed no encouragement earlier in the month.

 

[fogbat]

Just saw this on facebook which made me giggle:
"Constituency office of Lib Dem MP Simon Hughes being occupied by 10-20 student protesters"
He'll be pooping his pants about the effect on his future re-election

Reports of Mark Oaten heading over there, gleefully rubbing his hands, are as yet unconfirmed.

 

[moon23]

considering that the effect of the cuts hasn't really started to kick in yet, this is the most active and militant the yoot' have been for decades

Well there are less numbers involved than the 2003 Iraq demos and less violence than some of the anti-G8 demos so maybe not quite 'decades'.

 

[Paulie Tandoori]

There is no evidence to suggest the van was left their on purpose, so it is currently a conspiracy theory. If it was left there on purpose then the result was that the protest gained far more press attention then it would have done otherwise. The police hardly needed a justification for penning people in after the violence earlier in the month.

There seemed plenty of people who were just looking to smash things up and have a fight with the police without much encouragement. They needed no encouragement earlier in the month.

yep, those 12-year-olds were clearly up for a fight with the police weren't they?

you numpty.

 

[Dan U]

Just saw this on facebook which made me giggle:
"Constituency office of Lib Dem MP Simon Hughes being occupied by 10-20 student protesters"
He'll be pooping his pants about the effect on his future re-election

its a straight choice

 

[ferrelhadley]

 

[magneze]

Garbage. Those who can afford to pay 9K per year will pay just that, everyone else gets stung with a loan at commercial rates of interest. Can you explain how that makes it fairer?

No answer to this so far. I'm not surprised, quite difficult to justify eh.

 

[Streathamite]

Well there are less numbers involved than the 2003 Iraq demos and less violence than some of the anti-G8 demos so maybe not quite 'decades'.

except that the 2003 protests were truly inter-generational, and weren't driven by youth at all, they involved everyone from 'Nam protest veterans to students. And, actually, apart from one big march, there weren't a huge amount of protests like this.
Whereas this was quite clearly a) buzzingly militant, and b) specifically about the youth.
Hence my focus on yoot'.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

Lib Dem supporters are leaving them in droves. Tory supporters are a lost cause.

Yes, dissafection amongst lib dem supporters is one of the things most likely to break the camel's back.

 

[Andrew Hertford]

yep, those 12-year-olds were clearly up for a fight with the police weren't they?

you numpty.

As you probably well know, there's always the 'hard man' element turning up at demos looking for a fight, has been for years. Afterwards they try and justify their own importance whilst the authorities use their prescence to their own advantage.

 

[Citizen66]

it discredits and undermines the protest, turning people against them, and making the protests/protesters unpopular, and people less sympathetic to their cause.

It also makes other sections of society more sympathetic to their cause. The only people who will tut are the likes of the DM's readership that it's aimed at. Normal people will laugh and wish them well.

 

[Citizen66]

As you probably well know, there's always the 'hard man' element turning up at demos looking for a fight, has been for years. Afterwards they try and justify their own importance whilst the authorities use their prescence to their own advantage.

People are angry, Andrew. And rightly so. They're not angry because there's a tactical police van there or because they're 'hard men'. They're angry because they're being shafted sideways by the coalition govt.

 

[ymu]

As you probably well know, there's always the 'hard man' element turning up at demos looking for a fight, has been for years. Afterwards they try and justify their own importance whilst the authorities use their prescence to their own advantage.

Oh gosh, right. I'd never realised. In that case, I withdraw my support for all anti-cuts protests and will now firmly back the government. Better that they be allowed to do severe violence to all of us for generations to come than be seen to be on the same side as some kids who get a bit rough sometimes.

 

[dennisr]

Oh gosh, right. I'd never realised. In that case, I withdraw my support for all anti-cuts protests and will now firmly back the government. Better that they be allowed to do severe violence to all of us for generations to come than be seen to be on the same side as some kids who get a bit rough sometimes.

absolutely - shocking behaviour - wouldn't have seen this sort of hooliganism in my day. sign one of those nice chaps jolly old petitions and all would have been tickity boo. did I mention national service?

 

[Phil Aychio]

Reports of Mark Oaten heading over there, gleefully rubbing his hands, are as yet unconfirmed.

LOL Brilliant!

 

[SpineyNorman]

Lot's of them voted Labour and Conservative, those who voted Lib Dem are lucky the party is improving on the plans drawn up by the majority Tory coalition

Sorry but that just doesn't wash. Somewhere in the region of 60% of students voted Lib Dem (I can dig out a reference if you want to question this, though I don't have the time right now) and they did so precisely because of their manifesto promise to abolish fees, and failing that to vote against any increase. They engaged in the democratic process. YOU have discredited this process, YOU are responsible for this. They voted for a party that claimed to represent them and were betrayed. This is YOUR fault. If anyone gets seriously hurt in any demonstrations the blood will be on your hands as much as that of the perpetrators. I hope your party is proud that they have subverted the democratic process, thus alienating young people across the country and pushing them into these actions.

The contempt you show to both the students and people on this forum when you make claims that you must know to be fasle (I do not think you're stupid enough to actually believe this) is inexcusable.

 

[ferrelhadley]

 

[dennisr]

Sorry but that just doesn't wash.

You'll find that 99% of what moon says doesn't wash mate. he's a tory bot - one of the newer models - "automated soft-cover for the tories response generator" - ACUNTRG to use the acronym

 

[chilango]

Copper to protester "You're not 'ard enough. go away".

Speaks volumes, no?

 

[Andrew Hertford]

People are angry, Andrew. And rightly so. They're not angry because there's a tactical police van there or because they're 'hard men'. They're angry because they're being shafted sideways by the coalition govt.

We're all angry Citizen.