Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Misogynist barbarians in Alabama impose forced pregnancy law

What are your mixed feelings?
This seems to be a tricky case, though I can't find anything on it that gives much detail on it which isn't totally fucking biased - but a self-managed abortion at 23 weeks, if that's what happened, sounds like a rather grisly affair especially if done by someone without medical training (honestly don't know if mother does or not) and of course the forced-birthers are having a field-day with this. However, it doesn't absolve the dubious moral behaviour of FB or change the fact that this probably wouldn't have happened if abortion were legal!
 

Yes actually. Human children, as opposed to animal babies, are effectively born prematurely. The reason is that if the the child was born at the same stage of development as a calf, the mother's pelvis would be so wide that she wouldn't be able to walk. 'External foetus' isn't that far away.
 
I get the sense that allowing elective abortions for the full term isn't a point of unanimity here, anyhow.

So much for "baby-eating anarchists"...
 
This seems to be a tricky case, though I can't find anything on it that gives much detail on it which isn't totally fucking biased - but a self-managed abortion at 23 weeks, if that's what happened, sounds like a rather grisly affair especially if done by someone without medical training (honestly don't know if mother does or not) and of course the forced-birthers are having a field-day with this. However, it doesn't absolve the dubious moral behaviour of FB or change the fact that this probably wouldn't have happened if abortion were legal!

Yep. One of my objections was that it was done in an unsafe way--self-induced with pills obtained over the internet (or, at least that's what I was able to get from the many biased reports on this case). To be safe at 23 weeks, you really need a surgical abortion in proper clinic. I wouldn't be surprised if the smokescreen being thrown up by abortion opponents were responsible for the delay in getting a more timely abortion. There are fake clinics all over the state and they don't balk at lying to women about how far along they are, or try to guilt trip them. I've heard that some of these clinics will give you points for attending bible meetings, that a woman can spend on diapers and formula. FFS!

Even if an abortion past 20 weeks was legal in Nebraska, you'd find getting a provider to do one that late would be problematic. You'd probably have to travel to Denver to the clinic there. That takes resources not available to everyone. There are clinics within a reasonable drive from Norfolk that would do a 19-week abortion yet, but the governor and the legislature are working on making all abortions illegal. You'll see a lot more of these stories if they managed it.

A friend of mine had to be med-evaced to Denver because of a pregnancy gone wrong. The fetus was malformed, didn't have a brain, the internal organs were all outside the body, and she was experiencing massive pregnancy-related high blood pressure. Then, she started bleeding. It was absolutely needed to save her life, but there just wasn't anyone in the state able to do the procedure. Yet, in the middle of her family's tragedy, there were random people calling up the house and whimpering "don't kill me mommie!" Someone must have leaked that she was getting an abortion somewhere. It was ugly. (She did get the abortion and went on to have several children, but the whole family was traumatized)
 
Last edited:
There are a few problems with the viability criterion. First, there exist exceptions like the above, which might occur at any stage, so you can't have an absolute cut-off. Second, this is a moving target, which is used by forced-birthers to campaign for term limits to be reduced as medical advances bring the theoretical viability stage to earlier weeks.

I don't think it's straightforward to assess a particular viability date where it is only drastic medical intervention that might enable it (and the subsequent person is very likely to be severely handicapped). What if viability could be reduced to 12 weeks due to development of artificial wombs? Would that mean abortion limits should be reduced? A woman's right to bodily autonomy ends up depending on medicine not advancing too much.

Late-term abortions are very rare in any case, and their number can be reduced further by providing proper ongoing healthcare to every woman, pregnant or not.
 
I think it's the infantilisation that I object to most; the thought that we have to have some limits because neither women nor doctors can be trusted to be sensible. No doctor and no woman (or girl) is going to enter into a late term abortion unless it's absolutely necessary. You'd think no one had thought of this.

Sorry about your friend Yuwipi Woman, there really are some fuckwits out there.
 
Yep. One of my objections was that it was done in an unsafe way--self-induced with pills obtained over the internet (or, at least that's what I was able to get from the many biased reports on this case). To be safe at 23 weeks, you really need a surgical abortion in proper clinic. I wouldn't be surprised if the smokescreen being thrown up by abortion opponents were responsible for the delay in getting a more timely abortion. There are fake clinics all over the state and they don't balk at lying to women about how far along they are, or try to guilt trip them. I've heard that some of these clinics will give you points for attending bible meetings, that a woman can spend on diapers and formula. FFS!

Even if an abortion past 20 weeks was legal in Nebraska, you'd find getting a provider to do one that late would be problematic. You'd probably have to travel to Denver to the clinic there. That takes resources not available to everyone. There are clinics within a reasonable drive from Norfolk that would do a 19-week abortion yet, but the governor and the legislature are working on making all abortions illegal. You'll see a lot more of these stories if they managed it.

A friend of mine had to be med-evaced to Denver because of a pregnancy gone wrong. The fetus was malformed, didn't have a brain, the internal organs were all outside the body, and she was experiencing massive pregnancy-related high blood pressure. Then, she started bleeding. It was absolutely needed to save her life, but there just wasn't anyone in the state able to do the procedure. Yet, in the middle of her family's tragedy, there were random people calling up the house and whimpering "don't kill me mommie!" Someone must have leaked that she was getting an abortion somewhere. It was ugly. (She did get the abortion and went on to have several children, but the whole family was traumatized)

Fuck me, that is absolutely horrifying. I can't imagine having a pregnancy that had turned into what's described above, followed by the bit in bold happening on top.
 
I simply cannot comprehend how people can think it's OK for women to be left to die, possibly leaving behind children, for the sake of an unborn child that will most likely die anyway.

Presumably mothers are supposed to make 'noble sacrifices' at all costs, even to the cost of their living partners and children.

Yuwipi Woman - I felt pretty sure, re: the 23 weeks case that some sort of deliberate obstruction or misinformation from supposed authorities may have contributed to what happened.
 
Seems to me it’s about absolute control and making everyone who could be impregnated know it.

Similar to how having an underclass of desperate homeless people helps keep all the working classes in check. Or making sure accessing welfare looks miserable and terrifying. Something to be afraid of so they’ll toe the line.
 
Yes actually. Human children, as opposed to animal babies, are effectively born prematurely. The reason is that if the the child was born at the same stage of development as a calf, the mother's pelvis would be so wide that she wouldn't be able to walk. 'External foetus' isn't that far away.
I am aware of how humans have evolved. The term "external foetus" is just wrong.
 
Seems to me it’s about absolute control and making everyone who could be impregnated know it.

Similar to how having an underclass of desperate homeless people helps keep all the working classes in check. Or making sure accessing welfare looks miserable and terrifying. Something to be afraid of so they’ll toe the line.

I wonder how much of this is down to the fear of not enough white babies being born. The right wing in the US is pretty big on their replacement theories.
 
I wonder how much of this is down to the fear of not enough white babies being born. The right wing in the US is pretty big on their replacement theories.
Replaced with non viable embryos which also kill their host, just collateral tho I guess. 🤬

Edited to clarify, angry face is for the evil scum pushing for and enacting these laws, not you noxion.
 
Another horrific case and a hospital refusing to perform a termination because of what looks like lack of clarity in the law and/or fear of the consequences.

'The state senator who authored Louisiana’s abortion ban, Katrina Jackson, insisted to Baton Rouge TV station WAFB that the hospital should have authorized the termination of Davis’s pregnancy, because the statute contains exceptions for fetuses which are not viable outside a mother’s womb.

Nonetheless, in his office’s statement about working with Davis, Crump said Louisiana’s abortion ban was clearly confusing to interpret, and he accused its authors of “inflicting profound emotional and physical trauma” on his client, along with other similarly situated women.'

 
That story links to this one


about a 16 year old in Florida, who was refused permission (shudder… “refused permission”) to have an abortion on the grounds that, at 16, she’s too immature to make such a decision. Let’s see what kind of a forced- mother she can be as a 16 year old who is “too immature” to make tricky decisions shall we? One of the problems was that her father wasn’t available to give his support for the young woman. Because as we all know, the blessing of the absent dad is always necessary when a woman needs to make these choices.


Florida is one of the places that Nancy Davis (in the previous story) might be able to have her abortion. The restrictions are less tight there, but not so loose that a 16 year old can make this decision on her own.
 
Last edited:
I think this is the heart of why conservative men want to see abortion abolished. It lessens competition from women for higher paying jobs:

Every state-level anti-abortion restriction contributes to a 5% drop in total income for women of childbearing age, according to a forthcoming study.

Four models indicated that each additional enforced TRAP law — which stands for targeted regulation of abortion providers— was associated with a 4.9-6.5% drop in total income for women aged 20 to 45, compared to the total population. In the researchers’ preferred model, each TRAP law matched up with a 4.9% drop in income, according to a July draft of the study, set to be published next year in research publication SSRN.

The study also found that enforcement of a TRAP law leads to a 11.3% rise in the chance that a woman of childbearing age will drop out of the workforce, due to housework compared to the rest of the population.

“You see women sorting into less lucrative jobs, succeeding in their careers less, being less able to participate in very lucrative jobs every time these laws pass,” said Jonathan Zandberg, lecturer of finance at Wharton, one of the paper’s authors. Itay Ravid, assistant professor of law at Villanova’s law school, was co-author.

TRAP laws have been used to restrict abortion access by placing onerous and restrictions on providers in the name of patient safety. These can include applying standards for ambulatory surgical centers to clinics, or enacting requirements on hallway width or room size. As of Aug. 1, 23 states had laws like these in place, according to the Guttmacher Institute, which studies reproductive health care.

Research has found again and again the abortion is linked to economic security. Patients forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term are four times as likely to fall into poverty, and face higher job losses and lower earnings potential. The overturning of Roe v. Wade in June has jeopardized abortion access for some 33 million Americans.



I had to read it twice to realize that they don't just mean one loss of income of 5%, its each and every law that's enforced to get in the way of an abortion that cuts down income by an average of 5% EACH! It really begins to look like a calculated effort to lower the ability of women to support themselves as independent adults.
 
I think this is the heart of why conservative men want to see abortion abolished. It lessens competition from women for higher paying jobs:





I had to read it twice to realize that they don't just mean one loss of income of 5%, its each and every law that's enforced to get in the way of an abortion that cuts down income by an average of 5% EACH! It really begins to look like a calculated effort to lower the ability of women to support themselves as independent adults.

Yeah. Even if they’ve not thought it through consciously it’s a part of the whole barefoot-in-the-kitchen ethos.


And as a direct result we see women knuckling under and literally surrendering /submitting.

The fight against this is so exhausting and apparently endless that some women just can’t even.

Some of them may be happy enough (if the man involved is some kind of respectful, I suppose) but it makes it so much harder for all the women who are very unhappy with this kind of shit.







Yes plenty of it comes from religion (not just Christian) and some of it is part of consensual BDSM partnerships (which, while relevant, is imo not central to this discussion). I‘m particularly disturbed but the way this has started to creep into mainstream discourse, not only the right wing creepy “manophere“stuff but also places like mumsnet, TikTiok etc. The notion becomes more normalised and feeds into the ongoing creeping return to the most basic issues in the fight for freedom. It’s a different front but it’s the same war. The abortion thing is the big guns, this shit is the propaganda going on in the background,
 
The “surrendered wife” would have little or no agency in a discussion within the marriage about whether or not to abort the pregnancy.
 
  • Angry
Reactions: Ax^
I think this is the heart of why conservative men want to see abortion abolished. It lessens competition from women for higher paying jobs:





I had to read it twice to realize that they don't just mean one loss of income of 5%, its each and every law that's enforced to get in the way of an abortion that cuts down income by an average of 5% EACH! It really begins to look like a calculated effort to lower the ability of women to support themselves as independent adults.

The horrible irony is that men (NAM, but/and it’s often the same men who are some measure of misogynistic barbarian) then complain bitterly about women wanting or expecting them to be providers and protectors. If they take away women‘s rights and capacity to be independent and self supporting, they can’t then be surprised or shocked or outraged by those women then being obliged to turn elsewhere (the men, the state) to seek support.

But then, god forbid they end up as single mothers unable to do all the childcare, house are, financial care, social care that a household demands, because the man can’t or won’t provide the very thing they claim to extol and worship.

There‘s a horrible and very stupid dichotomy at play here, and I see it very large in the USA. Women/mothers must abide by the idealologies set out by NAM men, but when those men let them down and they end up alone or fleeing, and sometimes either or both those things while still stuck in a relationship with the man, it’s the women who have failed, who are despised for working, or not working enough, or working in the wrong way, or at the wrong job, or for “suckling on the teat of the state”. Or for not being desirable enough, mother enough, housewife enough.

Fuck this shit. Burn it down


NAMNAW obvs.
 
I saw a very brief and tentative discussion in the unpopular opinions thread about how breaking the patriarchy could /would benefit men. It fizzled out and I’ve not seen a new thread started to allow such a discussion to develop. A shame, I think, because if a man is asking that question then it’s worth talking about. I suspect that this thread isn’t much perused by men who aren’t fully aware of how squished they are themselves by the patriarchy.



(I’m not the one to start such a thread. I’m bad at curating threads I start, and I usually fuck up the OP anyway.)
 
The horrible irony is that men (NAM, but/and it’s often the same men who are some measure of misogynistic barbarian) then complain bitterly about women wanting or expecting them to be providers and protectors. If they take away women‘s rights and capacity to be independent and self supporting, they can’t then be surprised or shocked or outraged by those women then being obliged to turn elsewhere (the men, the state) to seek support.

But then, god forbid they end up as single mothers unable to do all the childcare, house are, financial care, social care that a household demands, because the man can’t or won’t provide the very thing they claim to extol and worship.

There‘s a horrible and very stupid dichotomy at play here, and I see it very large in the USA. Women/mothers must abide by the idealologies set out by NAM men, but when those men let them down and they end up alone or fleeing, and sometimes either or both those things while still stuck in a relationship with the man, it’s the women who have failed, who are despised for working, or not working enough, or working in the wrong way, or at the wrong job, or for “suckling on the teat of the state”. Or for not being desirable enough, mother enough, housewife enough.

Fuck this shit. Burn it down


NAMNAW obvs.

Yes, I've seen a lot of men on various platforms complaining about "hypergamy" (usually its some incel). If your status in life is forever determined by who you marry, you damn well better make a good, practical choice. Or, as I read in a review of a random Jane Austin book, "the plot is about a girl who must figure out how to wrap her hymen around 20,000 pounds a year."
 
Last edited:
I saw a very brief and tentative discussion in the unpopular opinions thread about how breaking the patriarchy could /would benefit men.

Be interesting to see the background on that, and how various terms were described.
 
Be interesting to see the background on that, and how various terms were described.

You were involved with that discussion yourself.

Unless you’re being sarky here…

it was so brief and tentative that it went pretty much unnoticed, even by those who responded.


Eta
Okay so I’ve just checked

You weren’t really involved, more that you made a single jokey post
 
Back
Top Bottom