Mark Duggan shooting inquest in London finally starts...

[leanderman]

The jury may have got it wrong, but at least their opinion is based on weeks of evidence and lengthy consideration over Christmas.

 

[kenny g]

if there had not been any repercussions on the streets in 2011 I am sure there would have been more police killings.

 

[ViolentPanda]

i can just about get my head around how the jury found killercop to have imagined the gun (despite his lengthy and detailed evidence in which he said there defintiley was a gun in his hand, and its precise movements)...

Basically, given his job, the copper is pretty much primed to see guns everywhere, but theoretically he's trained to also calmly assess a situation before acting, so yeah, I can see why the jury went the way they did on the presence of the gun.

and can see why they might have thought the gun was chucked...

I can't. Not in the absence (in a fairly evidence-rich environment) of any evidence that Duggan threw anything, or even assumed a stance that could be read as him being about to throw something.

...what with it being a chuck-away from the car, but ffs, there is no imaginable chain of events that the could transpire the would allow him out of the car, chuck the gun unseen and then face off to the killercop to get shot. stinks like utter bullshit. all thats missing is the cops testifying they let him go and make a cup of tea in amongst it all.

The other issue is that a gun, even a drilled-out starter pistol loaded with real ammo, isn't light, it's a kilo to a kilo and a half of deadweight metal. it's not amenable to being chucked, unless you've got a good bowling arm!

 

[Orang Utan]

Are people really that shocked by the verdict?
The average person trusts the police

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are people really that shocked by the verdict?
The average person trusts the police

They do? Not anywhere I've ever lived, mate!

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

That sounds like a very liberal interpretation. I know people get shot carrying pool cues and table legs and so on, but there should be something a little more substantial than I thought that bunch of flowers was an Uzi.

It can happen you know.

 

[Sasaferrato]

What a strange verdict. I was quite dumbfounded when I heard it.

Did anyone else see the video footage shown on the evening news? Don't quite know what to make of it.

 

[Orang Utan]

They do? Not anywhere I've ever lived, mate!

Yeah, most people take the police at their word.

 

[scalyboy]

Meh. Don't get one iota of sympathy from me. fucking gangsta. carrying a gun. you should expect a bullet from the bill.

How do you know he was carrying a gun?

 

[DotCommunist]

How do you know he was carrying a gun?

he doesn't, he is just a shit eating maggot looking for a rise

 

[SpookyFrank]

The jury may have got it wrong, but at least their opinion is based on weeks of evidence and lengthy consideration over Christmas.

How much of that evidence was knowingly false is anyone's guess though.

And it's not just a case of this not being the verdict the public wanted to hear, it's not even consistent with itself. Duggan had no gun, and yet it was lawful for the plod to kill him, on the grounds that he had a gun. Weeks of consideration my arse.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Are people really that shocked by the verdict?
The average person trusts the police

It is the judge's job to make the jury aware of the law and direct them to answer specific legal questions. They were not asked if they thought killing him was justified, they were asked if it was lawful. Killing an unarmed man is not lawful.

 

[Ax^]

Meh. Don't get one iota of sympathy from me. fucking gangsta. carrying a gun. you should expect a bullet from the bill.

cool all gangstas should shot police on sight from now on..


yay

 

[leanderman]

How do you know he was carrying a gun?

The jury ruled that, while he had a gun in the car, it was not on him when he was shot.

Which means police should not have shot him.

 

[SpookyFrank]

The jury ruled that, while he had a gun in the car, it was not on him when he was shot.

Which means police should not have shot him.

The jury have also seen video footage of a police officer leaving the taxi, wandering off without explanation to where the gun was found before another officer returns to that spot and supposedly discovers the gun.

 

[Corax]

I'm usually immune to most twattishness on twitter as I don't make a habit of filling my timeline with twats. But I made the mistake of reading #Duggan. Urgh.

 

[DotCommunist]

This is what you can expect if you or yours gets killed by police btw. Lies, smears, a much delayed investigation then a let off for the shooters. We're at this now. They'll murder you and get away with it.

 

[thriller]

cool all gangstas should shot police on sight from now on..


yay

condoning gun possession, hey. let's hope someone pops a lead in yo ass.

 

[thriller]

I'm usually immune to most twattishness on twitter as I don't make a habit of filling my timeline with twats. But I made the mistake of reading #Duggan. Urgh.

link, bruv?

 

[leanderman]

Who knows?

 

[ska invita]

Are people really that shocked by the verdict?
The average person trusts the police

yes, becasue its a jury verdict - i can only guess they felt intimidated by the power and presence of police and their testimony to go along with it in some way, despite the facts against. It must take a certain amount of balls to vote in a jury against the police, particularly so if you have lived a life in which your conception of policing is broadly positive.

Jurys often got against the state in activist cases though

 

[Limerick Red]

This is what you can expect if you or yours gets killed by police btw. Lies, smears, a much delayed investigation then a let off for the shooters. We're at this now. They'll murder you and get away with it.

Its not Now though is it, its been for fuckin years.

 

[phildwyer]

let's hope someone pops a lead in yo ass.

Cap.

It's "pop a cap."

Nobody says "pop a lead."

Twit.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is what you can expect if you or yours gets killed by police btw. Lies, smears, a much delayed investigation then a let off for the shooters. We're at this now. They'll murder you and get away with it.

And you can't bank on their ineptitude in the cover-up - they can bollocks it up and still get away with it.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

condoning gun possession, hey. let's hope someone pops a lead in yo ass.

Well let's just hope that no copper ever thinks that you're carrying.

 

[leanderman]

How much of that evidence was knowingly false is anyone's guess though.

And it's not just a case of this not being the verdict the public wanted to hear, it's not even consistent with itself. Duggan had no gun, and yet it was lawful for the plod to kill him, on the grounds that he had a gun. Weeks of consideration my arse.

I suspect it's exactly the verdict the public want to hear.

 

[Ax^]

condoning gun possession, hey. let's hope someone pops a lead in yo ass.

*take away beer can*

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I suspect it's exactly the verdict the public want to hear.

Really? How many people might there be thinking for the first time today, 'blimey, the rioters had a reason'.

 

[white rabbit]

After Plebgate, you might have thought the idea that police might not be telling the whole truth would have become more accepted.

 

[leanderman]

Really? How many people might there be thinking for the first time today, 'blimey, the rioters had a reason'.

It's my strong suspicion. Would be interesting to find out.