Mark Duggan shooting inquest in London finally starts...

[Pickman's model]

bbc spotlight on the murder of diarmuid o'neill

 

[butchersapron]

Other tests showed the fatal shot to the chest was at a steep downwards angle

 

[Citizen66]

Other tests showed the fatal shot to the chest was at a steep downwards angle

So an execution.

 

[white rabbit]

The officer who shot Duggan twice, known as V53, testified he had seen a gun in Duggan's right hand, and believed the suspect was preparing to use it. V53 said he had acted in self-defence, fearing that his own life or the lives of his colleagues were in danger from Duggan.

A gun was found six metres away wrapped in a sock, so regardless of the jury's finding (and they did find that there was no gun in his hand), V53 was lying. Yet they continued to accept that he thought Duggan had a gun and was about to shoot. A very bizarre decision.

 

[Dr. Furface]

Do you think that there has not been preparation made for this outcome?

They prepared for it very well by giving the verdict in the middle of winter. There may be a bit of trouble but they know very well that riots only happen in summertime.

 

[butchersapron]

A gun was found six metres away wrapped in a sock, so regardless of the jury's finding, V53 was lying. Yet they continued to accept that he thought Duggan had a gun and was about to shoot. A very bizarre decision.

No, this is key. He thought that he saw a gun. You cannot get around that.

 

[Pickman's model]

They prepared for it very well by giving the verdict in the middle of winter. There may be a bit of trouble but they know very well that riots only happen in summertime.

yes like hyde park in '94 and the israeli embassy in '08/'09 and tottenham in '85 and the student ones the other year. yes they only happen in the summer

 

[white rabbit]

No, this is key. He thought that he saw a gun. You cannot get around that.

That's what he said, but as it was wrapped in a sock anyway, it might as well have been a Big Mac.

 

[Pickman's model]

That's what he said, but as it was wrapped in a sock anyway, it might as well have been a Big Mac.

more like a whopper.

 

[butchersapron]

That's what he said, but as it was wrapped in a sock anyway, it might as well have been a Big Mac.

I doesn't matter. He said he thought he saw a gun. That's it. Game over. Where is the lie that can be proven?

 

[fogbat]

It would imo have to start in Tottenham then spread to other boroughs. Haveing a central london demo will play in their hands. Keep it local. Let the plod invade. Be seen as the invaders. Taking liberties.

Nah. Organise a series of shuttle buses to Kensington & Chelsea.

 

[white rabbit]

I doesn't matter. He said he thought he saw a gun. That's it. Game over. Where is the lie that can be proven?

That sounds like a very liberal interpretation. I know people get shot carrying pool cues and table legs and so on, but there should be something a little more substantial than I thought that bunch of flowers was an Uzi.

 

[ddraig]

it is a literal and factual interpretation
there is nothing more substantial, copper thought he saw it and this has been proved to be 'ok' by the verdict

 

[leanderman]

That sounds like a very liberal interpretation. I know people get shot carrying pool cues and table legs and so on, but there should be something a little more substantial than I thought that bunch of flowers was an Uzi.

It's not as egregious as the Harry Stanley case.

 

[Citizen66]

I doesn't matter. He said he thought he saw a gun. That's it. Game over. Where is the lie that can be proven?

None. The verdict is that 'belief' is enough to enact extrajudicial executions.

 

[butchersapron]

That sounds like a very liberal interpretation. I know people get shot carrying pool cues and table legs and so on, but there should be something a little more substantial than I thought that bunch of flowers was an Uzi.

A gun was found six metres away wrapped in a sock, so regardless of the jury's finding, V53 was lying. Yet they continued to accept that he thought Duggan had a gun and was about to shoot. A very bizarre decision.

How is this proof that V53 was lying?

 

[butchersapron]

That sounds like a very liberal interpretation. I know people get shot carrying pool cues and table legs and so on, but there should be something a little more substantial than I thought that bunch of flowers was an Uzi.

Well, welcome to england,

 

[white rabbit]

How is this proof that V53 was lying?

It wasn't in his hand and it didn't look like a gun.

 

[DaveCinzano]

That sounds like a very liberal interpretation. I know people get shot carrying pool cues and table legs and so on, but there should be something a little more substantial than I thought that bunch of flowers was an Uzi.

Ceci n'est pas un bouquet de fleurs

 

[butchersapron]

It wasn't in his hand and it didn't look like a gun.

I ask the same question again then.

 

[Belushi]

Business as usual at Tottenham Hale, though I spotted a couple of lurking Police Officers.

 

[Fedayn]

My youngest son came home today
His friends marched with him all the way
The pipe and drum beat out the time
While in his box of polished pine
Like dead meat on a butcher's tray
My youngest son came home today
And this time he's here to stay

 

[Corax]

What I'm getting at is that some people may want to think the absolute worst of plod to make a point, that it may well not be the case. It could, for example, have been cock-up followed by cover up.

Until they stop with the omerta then people are well entitled in thinking the worst IMO - given how often it later turns out to be correct.

 

[shygirl]

Krishnan Murty just got proper shook (whilst interviewing Ken Hinds and that stupid ex-copper I mentioned earlier) when a few people started milling around them. Think he thought they were gonna kick off.

 

[leanderman]

My youngest son came home today
His friends marched with him all the way
The pipe and drum beat out the time
While in his box of polished pine
Like dead meat on a butcher's tray
My youngest son came home today
And this time he's here to stay

Billy Bragg!

 

[ShiftyBagLady]

Krishnan Murty just got proper shook (whilst interviewing Ken Hinds and that stupid ex-copper I mentioned earlier) when a few people started milling around them. Think he thought they were gonna kick off.

To be fair he probably had people panicking in his ear 'Oh fuck, real life people! Ask them to talk - NO DON'T they're going to swear, back to studio, BACK TO STUDIO'

 

[Fedayn]

Billy Bragg!

Eric Bogle wrote it, Mary Black's version is beautiful.

 

[butchersapron]

To be fair he probably had people panicking in his ear 'Oh fuck, real life people! Ask them to talk - NO DON'T they're going to swear, back to studio, BACK TO STUDIO'

The point surely is the gap between people like him and the people they talk about. So saying he's panicking is sort of the point.

 

[DRINK?]

well he looks armed to me

 

[ddraig]

shit twitter 'joke'