Making it illegal to photograph breast-feeding women in a public place

[platinumsage]

Some MPs want to make it illegal to photograph a breast-feeding woman in a public place:

‘Stop the Breast Pest’: MP’s ‘horror’ at being photographed while breastfeeding

Stella Creasy launches campaign to change law after a boy took pictures of her feeding her baby on a train

www.theguardian.com

The experiences detailed in the article sound horrible, and it would be great if it was made illegal to purposefully take a bunch of photos of a woman’s breast while she’s trying to feed her baby. However that might not be easy to do.

It is compared with the 2019 ban on up-skirting, but that’s a clear-cut offence where the “guilty mind” intent of the perpetrator is usually obvious. In contrast it’s easy to imagine circumstances where a photographer in a public place might not realise that someone in the background is breastfeeding.

Of the two examples in the article the telephoto lens guy might be bang-to-rights if he’s caught with photos consisting entirely of a breast, but the guy on the train using his phone might easily claim he was taking a photo out of the window and didn’t pay attention to the woman sitting opposite.

I’m not sure how any legislation would tackle this, but I’m pretty certain it will either be too stringently worded and fail to make it through parliament, or else too leniently worded and be ineffective in enabling prosecutions.

 

[5t3IIa]

Protecting women from harassment is up for debate now, it is?

 

[platinumsage]

Protecting women from harassment is up for debate now, it is?

Is it? If we're going to protect women from harassment, surely we need to debate how to achieve that?

 

[izz]

I kind of understand how it could be thought that legislating against photographing breastfeeding mothers could be difficult as someone could simply not realise the mother is in shot blah blah blah BUT that's not the intent behind the proposed legislation is it ? The intent is to provide some protection for women who are just trying to nourish their child without some grubby pervert capturing the scene for gratification or some sniggering infantile idiot wishing to share it with other sniggering infantile idiots.

I think realistically, if the legislation becomes law then there'll be no prosecutions unless the intent is obvious.

 

[maomao]

accidental content-free post

 

[farmerbarleymow]

I was surprised that it's legal to take such photos - it's creepy and weird to say the least.

 

[editor]

I was surprised that it's legal to take such photos - it's creepy and weird to say the least.

The UK law allows - quite rightly - the taking of photos of anyone or anything in a public space. However, I have no problem with the law banning and criminalising pervs harassing and zooming in on breastfeeding mothers because that's well weird.

I can't imagine it happens that much mind as the opportunities must be few and far between.

 

[Thora]

Ban men from public places. So many problems solved.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I was surprised that it's legal to take such photos - it's creepy and weird to say the least.

broadly speaking (and subject to the disclaimer that i'm not a lawyer or plod) under british law, anything that isn't specifically illegal is legal (rather than a system where anything that isn't specifically allowed is illegal) although some things like 'breach of the peace' can take in a variety of actions.

i guess this is a specific where it's not really been a matter of debate before, since it's only fairly recently that most people go around with a pocket sized high resolution camera, and would agree that any law would need to be drafted in a way that is going to be enforceable.

the current law about taking photos in a public place is a bit fuzzy in places (urban 75 article here) - my reading is that it's not illegal to take photos that have people in them, but it can come under 'harassment'

not sure whether this specifically needs a new law, amendment to existing harassment law, or plods / prosecutors / courts being given some advice about enforcing the existing law in cases like this (bearing in mind that 'the system' has often needed a fair bit of prodding to uphold bits of law when women / minorities are the victims of crime)

 

[Santino]

I can't imagine it happens that much mind as the opportunities must be few and far between.

I'm not sure how relevant your imagination is on this issue.

 

[Pickman's model]

Ban men from public places. So many problems solved.

So many created

 

[Puddy_Tat]

oops - double post

 

[Artaxerxes]

First world problem but I honestly just find it less stressful to not photograph people at all at this point.

Nevertheless I fully support this legislation.

 

[Pickman's model]

The UK law allows - quite rightly - the taking of photos of anyone or anything in a public space. However, I have no problem with the law banning and criminalising pervs harassing and zooming in on breastfeeding mothers because that's well weird.

I can't imagine it happens that much mind as the opportunities must be few and far between.

The law may permit the taking of photos in a public space. But that right is not unconstrained. Taking pictures of children without their parents consent, for example - utterly legal but socially unacceptable. I don't often notice women breast feeding, but it's something which shouldn't be intruded on either by officious shopkeepers or other people or photographers

 

[MickiQ]

I've no objections to the idea but not sure how effective such a law might actually be. Certainly in both of these cases it wouldn't make any difference.
Plod aren't going to turn up sirens screaming for this. They'll send someone round to take a statement later. Nor unless the woman can name the perp, are they going to put much effort into an investigation.

 

[editor]

Taking pictures of children without their parents consent, for example - utterly legal but socially unacceptable.

Simply not true. It very much depends on the circumstances and the subject matter.

I don't often notice women breast feeding, but it's something which shouldn't be intruded on either by officious shopkeepers or other people or photographers

Indeed. I'd certainly never take such pictures. I find it really quite weird to be honest.

I'm not sure how relevant your imagination is on this issue.

Sigh.

 

[Pickman's model]

Simply not true. It very much depends on the circumstances and the subject matter.

yeh the subject matter being children whose parents you haven't consulted. I'd be surprised if you weren't asked some questions by said parents.

 

[weltweit]

..
I can't imagine it happens that much mind as the opportunities must be few and far between.

I don't think I have been near a mother breast feeding her child ever.

However as everyone has cell phones now there will be cameras near every breast feeding mother.

 

[TopCat]

I would have thought it could be straightforward. One pic on a persons phone of a woman breastfeeding not guilty. Two or more of different women? Guilty.

 

[editor]

yeh the subject matter being children whose parents you haven't consulted. I'd be surprised if you weren't asked some questions by said parents.

I've never, ever been "asked some questions by said parents" because I don't take the kind of photos that you seem to insinuating that I do. In fact, I find your comment and tasteless innuendo fucking offensive.

I'm very respectful of people's privacy, but if, for example - I'm covering a busy street protest which includes kids under 16 in the crowd carrying banners and happily posing for photographs, I'm not really going to spend the next hour trying to track down everyone's parents to ask for permission, neither should I be expected to do so.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've never, ever been "asked some questions by said parents" because I don't take the kind of photos that you seem to insinuating that I do. In fact, I find your comment and tasteless innuendo fucking offensive.

I'm very respectful of people's privacy, but if, for example - I'm covering a busy street protest which includes kids under 16 in the crowd carrying banners and happily posing for photographs, I'm not really going to spend the next hour trying to track down everyone's parents to ask for permission, neither should I be expected to do so.

I am pointing out a fact, that photographing children, in eg a park, in a public place is socially unacceptable. Not when posing but when say playing or whatnot.. Not as people incidental to a photo, as the photo's subject. I didn't say you took these pictures, so there is no innuendo at all. It was a simple example of a social limit to the legal right of photography. Change the you to one in my post, which is as you know well what I meant

 

[Edie]

Is this really a thing? I mean obviously if it happens it’s appalling and the pervert should be held accountable. But can’t help thinking this is ‘token feminism’ and cos it happened to one MP.

I wish Stella Creasy would take on the case of justice for kinship carers, or making safer spaces for kids to play out, or maternity pay and bursaries for student nurses.

 

[pug]

Are trains public places?

 

[editor]

Are trains public places?

Technically no - they're the property of the rail operator. Unless you're taking the pics from outside the train on public land.

 

[Winot]

I wish Stella Creasy would take on the case of justice for kinship carers, or making safer spaces for kids to play out, or maternity pay and bursaries for student nurses.

She’s run prominent campaigns against payday loan companies, in favour of abortion rights in Northern Ireland and in favour of better maternity rights for MPs, so perhaps your examples will be what she does next.

 

[Edie]

She’s run prominent campaigns against payday loan companies, in favour of abortion rights in Northern Ireland and in favour of better maternity rights for MPs, so perhaps your examples will be what she does next.

That’s good to know. Is she your MP?

 

[Winot]

That’s good to know. Is she your MP?

No she’s Walthamstow.

 

[tim]

I don't think I have been near a mother breast feeding her child ever.

However as everyone has cell phones now there will be cameras near every breast feeding mother.

That's a reflection of the real problem: women don't feel confident about doing something so essential and so natural in public. The perverts taking pictures just make a bad situation worse.

 

[editor]

It looks set to become law:

The new law will make it illegal to record images of or otherwise observe breastfeeding without consent or a reasonable belief to consent. It specifies that to be found guilty, the perpetrator “must be acting for the purpose of obtaining sexual gratification or of humiliating, alarming or distressing the victim.”

Photographing Breastfeeding in Public to be Illegal in England and Wales

Soon to be illegal in England and Whales.

petapixel.com