Loughborough Junction public space improvements - consultation begins
- Thread starter Leo Chesterton
- Start date
concerned1
behind the small print
She didn't win the award.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
It is supposed to be more in the manner of a Forum (what else in Brixton/Lambeth?). LJAG were charged (by the council I think) with getting it up and running. Probably LJAG still provide admin support (minutes etc).
So basically it is a forum of local businesses (theoretically). A year or so ago they were asking if Loughborough Junction needed a BID. I hope they have learned from Brixton BID that this would be a mixed blessing.
According to LJAG's website the last meeting was in February 2015 - they seem not to be active enough to yell about current events. And being in the LJAG fold so speak......[conflict of interest declaration?]
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
bimble
floofy
She says in her post
"What I cannot get straight in my mind is this. Would filtering area wide from Hinton, including HHRd and Shakespeare, achieve a similar or greater modal shift than filtering Loughborough Rd? "
Which (maybe I'm reading it wrong ) might sound a bit like Haya87 cycling campaigner of the year, saying "I am not at all convinced that this particular experiment is the best idea".
?
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bimble
floofy
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
This was perfectly true of the 7 Bridges festival or that more recent WW I event. The Farm is probably lots of fun for those who like gardening.
Social engineering on the other hand is not fun it is power play.
OK, so maybe she's unsure whether the first step in the grand plan should have been disconnecting Coldharbour Lane from all roads to the south of it, rather than from all roads to the north.
Also, the experiment as it stands doesn't quite achieve the latter.
But the ultimate goal is still as stated.
Well, if you want a good example of someone who is either completely detached from reality or taking the piss, there it is.
bimble
floofy
Me personally I don't think that this particular road closure experiment is part of a grand plan for modal shift or a city-wide cyclist agenda.
The stated goals are all about 'public space ' and 'LJ as a destination in its own right'. They make no sense either I admit (as the thing is implemented) but I honestly don't think this thing here is about cyclists or pollution.Call me a fringe conspiracy theorist.
But she says it in her post:
The ultimate goal is that you can't drive through that area, but are forced to go round the perimeter.
bimble
floofy
I'm not denying that she is an extremist, cycling-wise. As said before I was struck by her comment at the meeting I went to (it'll only take 2 minutes for the ambulance crew to stop, drag those roadblocks out of the way and put them back before carrying on to the emergency) .
But if she - even she - might have reservations and questions about this particular scheme, i just thought that was worth drawing out, instead of just attacking her .
Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Maybe not a conspiracy but an odd series of collaborations:
LJAG's public space scheme 'dead in the water until the cyclists came', cyclists happy with their bit of "Space for Cycling" (forget the public space) and Cllr Jenny Brathwaite at the Call-in desperate for support for her 'LJ as destination' -- even mistakenly hugging one supposed cyclist there to protest the road closures!
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LadyV
Well-Known Member
Saw a motorcyclist beat the closure this morning. He got off his motorbike by Ridgeway Road, then walk it on the pavement by Wyck Gardens, then once at the other side of the pedestrian area he got back on again. Bit of a faff but no doubt still a lot quicker than going all the way around
LadyV
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if there are actually fixed cameras now on the CHL/LR pedestrian zone? The reason I ask is that despite there now being clear signage, I'm still seeing a decent amount of cars go through. If Lambeth are only issuing fines when the CCTV cars are there, I would say that it's a further example of their negligence with this project, I saw about 15 cars just this morning but no car there so if no fines were issued to those cars that's potentially almost £2000 not collected, which to me is negligent of a council that's making cuts elsewhere due to a shortfall.
I know it might seem hypocritical of me to say that when I'm in favour of removing the closures, I am still in favour of removing them but if the scheme if going to fail I want it to fail because it's a bad idea not because Lambeth can't do it properly. And in the meantime while we have it in place, I want drivers to observe it properly and be penalised appropriately if not.
I know it might seem hypocritical of me to say that when I'm in favour of removing the closures, I am still in favour of removing them but if the scheme if going to fail I want it to fail because it's a bad idea not because Lambeth can't do it properly. And in the meantime while we have it in place, I want drivers to observe it properly and be penalised appropriately if not.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Not hypocritical at all.
LadyV
Well-Known Member
That's not new though, that's been there the whole 6 years I've lived in LJ, it's a general CCTV rather than a traffic camera, maybe they can re-purpose them but if so why the need for the car expect to annoy people?
concerned1
behind the small print
This belongs to the Loughborough/Angell and Hertford estate's cctv system, paid for weekly by residents and is NOT for fining or even watching traffic!!!
concerned1
behind the small print
If people want to d/l and print off the paper petition you may but please do not gather signatures of those who have signed the Lambeth Council: Reverse the Loughborough Junction Road Closures Now! this is for those who do not have internet access. Thx.
LadyV
Well-Known Member
Thought it was something like that, which brings me back to my original question, is there new one especially for the traffic? I thought there was one lurking on the top of the traffic lights but that seems to be for the traffic lights rather than the pedestrian zone
critical1
All views expressed are definitely my own.
I'm sat here wondering if Loughborough Junction is not already a destination in its own right being we already have a train station here, then my thoughts wander to the bigger picture about what would I get on a train to LJ to make it a destination in its own right! The farm NO, the Horses NO, the Park NO, the businesses NO, my home YES, my Community YES...
Maybe others who are pro closures are more enlightened as to clarify the ambiguity of what a destination is! If it is already meaningful.
critical1
All views expressed are definitely my own.
It's a new one on the kirb side.
I don't see a connection between the meaning of 'destination' and your position on closures, but I think they just mean 'is it a place people would want to visit?' (i.e. attracting people for reasons other than work, school, home etc.)
teuchter
je suis teuchter
I can only offer you my own interpretation of what a "destination" means.
To me it is pretty simple, just somewhere where you go to do stuff.
That might be to do basic shopping. If there are more shops in LJ where I can get stuff, I'm more likely to do my food shopping in LJ instead of going to Camberwell or Brixton. Since the co-op opened I go to Camberwell less regularly, for example. Last time I needed some repairs to my bike, I took it to Harbour Cycles instead of somewhere else.
Also social stuff. At the moment, if I want to meet a friend for a pint, my options are in Brixton or Camberwell (or the Cambria, but it's not in the central part of LJ). People have rightly bemoaned the loss of all the pubs in central LJ. Making it a "destination" for me would include trying to reverse that.
If I want to meet someone for a coffee, then more recently some options have appeared. The place under the station or the Blue Turtle place. However, the fact that they are right next to a busy road detracts a bit from their appeal. On a nice summer's day I might opt to go somewhere else where I can sit outside with less noise and pollution.
So making somewhere a "destination" is about trying make it somewhere that people want to go, firstly because there are services (ie shops etc) there in the first place, but also by making it somewhere that people want to go, by making the general environment more attractive and for many people that means reducing the dominance of motor traffic. Hence the proposals to reduce it and to provide more pedestrian public space.
To me it's about making it a "destination" for people who live in the general area who might otherwise tend to go to other local centres. And the more people that use central LJ as their local "destination" the better it is for the businesses that are there, and potentially the nicer it is for everyone to use, including when they are just doing basic things like going to the local shop or walking to and from the train station or waiting for the bus.
I expect you're going to come back with stuff about gentrification and how you don't want LJ full of Hipster cafes. Fair enough. Neither do I actually. But if you reject the whole idea on that basis, then nothing can ever be changed and it'll continue to be a town centre dominated by road traffic, with no pubs, little social space, vacant units and flytipped rubbish left there because people think of it as a desolate dumping ground. If you'd prefer it to stay like that rather than risking any kind of change because it might involve some changes that you don't like then also fair enough. I'd rather try and make things better whilst doing everything possible, via planning policy if possible (hence importance of, and my interest in, the masterplan) to try and make sure those changes are beneficial for people already living here rather than just being about servicing more moneyed residents and facilitating developers' desire to capitalise to the maximum extent.
In my opinion, prioritising access for private cars is not beneficial for most local residents. It's beneficial for those with the money to own and run a car, and it's beneficial for those from outside the immediate locale who want to use the area as a convenient transit route on journeys, the majority of which could be made by other modes of transport which would be much less disruptive.
LadyV
Well-Known Member
I echo the thoughts and the desire for change in your post, you're right we do have to have make baby steps to make people have more pride in their area and make the area nicer for everyone, the two feed off eachother. However I don't believe this closure has achieved that. Yes Loughborough Road is relatively empty and I imagine some people will probably start to see an improvement in air quality along the road, but closing the road hasn't made LJ a nicer place, so far it's just increased the traffic on CHL and made it even more of a thoroughfare than it was before, it's made it easier to ignore than before, somewhere to get through as quickly as possible.
I know I keep on harping back to a document that has since been superseded but a lot of the original masterplan ideas were great and had thought about how to make people notice the area as the travelled through, whatever method of transport they used, maybe make them think "oh I'll come back here" or "I'll get off the bus and go there". That's what we need to go back to.
Sadly I can't see how we will ever have some of the things you mention, a pub, cafe with outside space etc, where would they go with the current space available? But we can live in hope. If the grant for the re-development of the space the area that the farm currently occupies is won then there is potential for change due the influx of people in the area, more people working/travelling in the area naturally brings more trade and would hopefully encourage more businesses to open which in turn hopefully locals would use too and support.
I went to Vauxhall yesterday to see the new Newport Street Gallery (beautiful space if you're interested!). Vauxhall has had quite a few million spent on it and parts of it, mostly closest to the station, do look a heck of a lot better than it did when I used to work there but on a Sunday when none of the businesses are there, it was dead, no life whatsoever. People were going to the gallery but then leaving the area without spending money there. I mention this as I think this is part of the problem with using the word 'destination', it's misleading, Vauxhall is now a destination because of the gallery but does it bring in money to local businesses? Not that I saw. A destination is somewhere you want to go and visit, not necessarily somewhere you want to stay and spend money. That's why I prefer the idea of a mini town centre or village atmosophere, businesses working together to generate trade for each other and the town/road planning assisting with that.
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