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Lost Prophets...

But the basic principle of judging every child protection decision is the same. I've only limited experience of these decisions and in very different circumstances, working with women with very chaotic and severe psychotic illnesses. It was vital that each pregnancy and child is separately assessed. You have to take a critical stance which nonetheless allows the possibility of change, however remote.

That said, I suspect in these cases, it's unlikely. And my personal opinion that's a just lifelong punishment. But that's also why I don't envy those who have to assess and make these decisions.

There was a very interesting case a few years ago where a woman had seven children in a row, each case assessed as it occurred, and each child was removed because of "incontrovertable" evidence of abuse. Turned out that the woman had a bone disease (osteogenesis imperfecta) that meant that their bones were extremely brittle. The woman herself had been in pain all her life (as had her father), but thought that it was "normal" for people to be in constant internal pain.
 
I think I understand this thinking Cheesy however castration wouldn't necessarily stop abuse or the will to abuse.. Penetration is just one part of sexual abuse, it takes many forms..

Absolutely. Sometimes if the usual method of satisfying the power impulse (in this case sexual) is removed, the offender turns to another way of doing so, which can be physical violence/torture. :(
 
We can but hope.
Unfortunately, as the child protection workers on Urban will attest, very early abuse can cause developmental issues even when the abuse is not recalled, let alone socialisation issues, so one hopes that adoptive families will be on the look-out for problems and tackle them as they emerge.
Yes, if he'd had them up to age 4-5, with their conscious selves developed, they may have been fucked for life. This kind of very early abuse can be a cause of extreme problems, such as multiple personalities as the children cope by splitting their consciousness so that a different 'person' experiences the abuse. I'm hoping he was caught just in time to prevent this kind of irreversible damage.
 
Shocking notes from the judge, like most I had to stop. What I find odd, and perhaps I didn't read them properly, was that from the newspaper reports earlier in the week I was under the impression that most of it was stuff he said he wanted to do and that it was mostly by Skype or phone. Not that I'm underplaying how vile that stuff is, but I hadn't realised the extent to which he had also physically abused women and children. Obviously nothing could be reported which would have affected the case, but the papers didn't seem to be telling us that he had actually committed a load of disgusting acts as well as what he wanted to do next.
 
trashpony said:
Eh? The Mail's website is the most read in the UK iirc - they get massive advertising revenue based on it. Every time you click on their site, it boosts their revenue

Fair enough. Sometimes you have to click on the advert to generate revenue on web sites but I'm not an expert on how it works for the DM.
 
poor 'H' Steps gets a court apology
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-25447856
As well as having the same name as the Lostprophets singer, the judge was told, both men are of similar age and originally come from Wales.

In a statement issued on Thursday, the Steps singer said: "In Court this morning E! have publically apologised to me and a statement has been read in court to make the position clear.

"This was not something that I did lightly but it was important to me that a public statement was made so that there is no confusion going forward.

"I am really pleased that it has been resolved so quickly so that me and my family can try and move on from what has been an extremely distressing time."
 
i mean baby rapists or severe mollesters such as he. I'm sure there are grades of paedophiles and the most savage (Grade A, if you like) deserve castration.
I'm quite shocked at the vengeful blood last in this and your other posts here. You're entitled to your view of course but if there's one thing we have broadly managed in Europe is to quell our thirst for physical punishment so this does disappoint me. Sorry. :(

As others have pointed out where do you draw the line? Amputating the hands of shoplifters?
 
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Let's just hope the kids he abused get the support they need to make sure they're not ruined.

And I don't wish violence on him in prison - Violence is fuck all, I hope somehow he's made to confront the enormity of what he's done and realise that it was all his choice and that the choices he's made have put him in prison for thirty years. I hope he wakes up crying every morning for years to come.
Prisons often have first night wings where those newly convicted go when they first go to prison. They are gated off from the rest of the prison, and have experienced prisoners on hand to act as 'listeners' to talk to, support and keep an eye on the newly convicted. Apparently a lot of men cry themselves to sleep as the enormity of the situation they are in hits home. I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up in Monster Mansions.
 
well yeah, I mean I wouldn't want him to be tortured or anything like that but I will say I did think stuff like "what's the point of keeping this cunt alive, why don't we just put an end to it."

I don't agree with those views rationally obviously and it was just a gut reaction but loads of people must think the same stuff.

The state shouldn't have that kind of power though.
 
I read the sentencing notes last night. Really grim reading :(

It's important for me to know about this stuff. Not to shy away from the horribleness of it all. I feel fucking heartbroken for those children and part of me wishes that I hadnt read it. But this stuff needs to be out in the open. Maybe thats one of the ways to help make it stop :(

I think your right, that issues like this horrible as they are need to be examined and understood. There is no way we can try to prevent things like this happening if we don't have an understanding of why and how these things happen. Coming to that understanding is going to be grim as fuck but it needs doing.

How can we protect kids or anyone from something we don't understand? We can't. if we don't make attempts to understand and recognise when, where and how children are at risk of abuse then we are all at risk. Kids will get hurt, essentially that means were all going to suffer somewhere down the line because of it. That infliction of trauma will have massive repercussions; obviously on the individual but then possibly on the community and on society as a whole.

Damn nearly everyone in jail right now will have suffered abuse at some point in there childhood, they have been traumatised and then go on to traumatise other people, there's a transmission of trauma that seems to spread like a disease does. Most people experience trauma and after can go about their business without hurting anyone, but there's a significant minority that don't and that is a risk.

the effects of trauma especially from childhood are potentially massively devastating to the individual and to society as a whole. We must take child abuse as a threat to our survival as a species, because it is.

To respond to that threat we need to recognise and understand it, we can't hide from it. It will be horrible to look at but shying away from that confrontation will hurt our kids and it will ultimately hurt us all.

I think it is brave and wise to look at all the grim details and get that knowledge. Respect
 
HMP Wakefield. Cat A prison, housing lots of very serious offenders - and specialises in sex offenders and other big ticket offenders.

Right thanks. What's the difference with places like Broadmoor. Is that a hospital or prison or what? Saw a documentary about that nurse murderer Beverley something and it all looked cushy where she was. Given she killed loads of kids.
 
I think your right, that issues like this horrible as they are need to be examined and understood. There is no way we can try to prevent things like this happening if we don't have an understanding of why and how these things happen. Coming to that understanding is going to be grim as fuck but it needs doing.

How can we protect kids or anyone from something we don't understand? We can't. if we don't make attempts to understand and recognise when, where and how children are at risk of abuse then we are all at risk. Kids will get hurt, essentially that means were all going to suffer somewhere down the line because of it. That infliction of trauma will have massive repercussions; obviously on the individual but then possibly on the community and on society as a whole.

Damn nearly everyone in jail right now will have suffered abuse at some point in there childhood, they have been traumatised and then go on to traumatise other people, there's a transmission of trauma that seems to spread like a disease does. Most people experience trauma and after can go about their business without hurting anyone, but there's a significant minority that don't and that is a risk.

the effects of trauma especially from childhood are potentially massively devastating to the individual and to society as a whole. We must take child abuse as a threat to our survival as a species, because it is.

To respond to that threat we need to recognise and understand it, we can't hide from it. It will be horrible to look at but shying away from that confrontation will hurt our kids and it will ultimately hurt us all.

I think it is brave and wise to look at all the grim details and get that knowledge. Respect

In a discussion about this (and other cases) with some friends, one person suggested that it's regrettable how demonized paedophiles have become, since this would tend to prevent them from coming forward and seeking treatment. However, I seem to recall reading a report that stated psychiatric treatment for paedophiles had a very low success rate, because a large number of offenders didn't see that they'd done anything wrong ...can anyone point me in the direction of some reputable research?

This Ian Watkins case is of course particularly troubling because of the baby-rape elements, which, as well as being nauseating to read about, are - I would think - completely unfathomable and incomprehensible to the general public. Do such crimes stem from a desire to plumb the depths of unacceptable behaviour, the shock value of what is forbidden by normal society?

I don't buy Watkins' defence that drug use caused him to commit these offences, but I can see how a lowering of inhibitions brought on by class As might lead him to enact his fantasies. But these would be fantasies he already had a predisposition towards - which returns us to the mystifying question of why someone would want to perform such depraved acts? Again, if anyone knows of any research that's been done in similar cases I'd be interested...do such offenders have a background of having been abused themselves as children?
 
Right thanks. What's the difference with places like Broadmoor. Is that a hospital or prison or what? Saw a documentary about that nurse murderer Beverley something and it all looked cushy where she was. Given she killed loads of kids.

Broadmoor is a high security hospital, along with Rampton and Ashworth, run by the NHS. If someone is up in court for a serious crime and is suffering a serious mental illness, they'll usually get sent to a mental hospital, although these three are reserved for the most serious cases requiring high security. A person can get sent to prison and become mentally ill and get transferred there - that is what happened to Brady as he was declared criminally insane and sent to the special hospital. Or they can ping pong as they relapse, get shipped to the mental hospital, get treated and better, get shipped back to prison to serve out the remainder of their sentence, and so forth.
 
When cases like this come to light I think the only thing people not involved in the case can do is maintain dignity and try to help people that might be at risk. All these wish fulfilling statements about extreme violence are as well as being impractical and being on all kinds of dodgy ground ethically are just horribly undignified. When we start saying these things the integrity of our humanity and our dignity start to erode just a little bit. And when we start acting on them were all fucked.
 
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Broadmoor is weirdly sited in an expensively leafy part of Berkshire (I assume before it became desirable). Every Monday morning they test the escape alarm. It sounds like an air raid siren. It's kind of creepy on the rare occasions it goes off at other times.

Is Wakefield actually *in* Wakefield?
 
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