It doesnt matter where its from. It's a far right attack line now, so you shouldn't use it.
Looks like Genesis P-Orridge has died
- Thread starter nogojones
- Start date
Athos
Well-Known Member
This is utterly ridiculous. Quite apart from me not knowing that Gill designed fonts never mind knowing which are his, using a font is not the same as explicitly celebrating someone's creativity. Nice try, though.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
funny how you 'argument' keeps subtly shifting, isn't it? And peculiar that you can't recognise how some can live a contradictory life, all of which should be recognised at their death. Which is what most people are doing here.
Athos
Well-Known Member
My argument's not shifting at all. And, fundamentally I agree with you that the totality - good and bad - should be recognised at death (and before). My point was that the mealy-mouthed caveats didn't strike that balance. It seemed like the abuse was being glossed over, which, sadly (as others have pointed out) isn't an uncommon thing - certain artists seem to get more of a pass than others.
Jennastan
Fuck off, Avon.
This Athos fellow - I seem to remember him expressing doubt about whether i was a woman or not a while back because I'm a trans ally. He seems to want to misgender P-Orridge too. Whatever he thinks of P-Orridge as an abuser I think misgendering is low just because you disapprove of a human being's choices in life. Gender identity isn't a privilege to be withdrawn at the whim of any old random person who is offended. It's a fact and denial of that fact is a lie and an untruth as well as being a warning to anyone who aligns themselves to trans people and their rights, not just trans people apparently, but cis allies too.
(Athos be warned I will not be responding to you so please don't waste your breath)
(Athos be warned I will not be responding to you so please don't waste your breath)
Athos
Well-Known Member
I've said many times, going back years, that I consider you a woman (as I do all trans women), so don't start that shit.
If I misgendered them (which I seem to have done in just one of my posts, as have others, by the way), then it was by accident. I've never deliberately misgendendered anyone, and never would. In this instance, not so much for their sake (I don't care about hurting the feelings of people who abuse women), but because of the wider issue.
Reno
The In Kraut
In all fairnes, Genesis P-Orridge didn’t identify as traditionally transgender but as "pandrogenic" a term which so far applies to only two people/one person and was an attempt to merge with her/his partner to become one identity. Then you have to look up that the preferred pronoun isn’t "they", "she" or "he" but "s/he" or "her/his". During the most high profile part of P-Orridge‘s career s/he was a he.
I don't always agree with Athos, but in this case it’s a bit of unfair to call him out for purposely misgendering P-Orridge. Slip-ups happen and all you can do is to learn and try to remember. Accusing others of purposely misgendering an individual when it likely was a honest mistake isn’t helpful.
edit: corrected because I made a mistake too, these things are tricky to navigate in terms of language
I don't always agree with Athos, but in this case it’s a bit of unfair to call him out for purposely misgendering P-Orridge. Slip-ups happen and all you can do is to learn and try to remember. Accusing others of purposely misgendering an individual when it likely was a honest mistake isn’t helpful.
edit: corrected because I made a mistake too, these things are tricky to navigate in terms of language
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I tried to like Throbbing Gristle, but I mostly failed, and the art mostly left me cold as well. p-o always struck me as self-absorbed, self-centred and selfish. Now artists are self-absorbed, generally - they're looking inward primarily, after all. But the art that then resonates is that which discovers truths that are shared with others. Struck me that p-o was after something rather opposed to that - discovering what it was that wasn't shared, that made p-o special, that which could not resonate. The pandrogenic project appears as the ultimate end of all that. Far less interesting than the pair of them thought it was, imho.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That in itself raises tricky questions. To what extend should the rest of us feel obliged to use the pronouns they chose for themselves? Do we get to dictate these things in that way? What are the limits to that, if any? If anything about the artistic project is of interest, it is the way it poses these questions.
petee
no gods, no malarkey
same. it was the sort of thing i thought i ought to like, and i tried, and some of it i did like, but in the end it came off as just morbid and self-concsciously transgressive and i gave up before they split.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Same reason there is a rule on these boards not to fuck around with members' usernames. It just makes you look a bit of a twat.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
In this instance I think you miss my point somewhat. And you change my point by part-quoting it.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Reno
The In Kraut
Yes
Spandex
A crazy bulbous punchbag of sound
That might not be the most representative example of TG's sound, but it's a stone cold classic, my favourite of theirs.
cozmikbrew
Bass case
That's lush, most of the T G stuff I've listened to has been, shall we say challenging, which I suppose is the point but yeah, this is great
@X
Proper Tidy
Arsed
So what's this back story with p-orridge? The abusive/coersive stuff?
Some real horrible shit came out in Cosi Fani Tutti's autobiog when it was published the other year.
Proper Tidy
Arsed
Cheers kb, just been reading up on it
petee
no gods, no malarkey
i see that, yet i found myself using it (here on these boards) to describe a certain rightwing behavior. it's useful and accurate, when it's correct (as it was when i used it
)
DJWrongspeed
radio eros
just found this, a less than favourable moment in the media spotlight. I admire TG's progressive stance though.
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DJWrongspeed
radio eros
agree, they were far more radical than most other bands and opened up new musical spaces.
Not much comment to add from me about Orridge''s nastiness and abusiveness bar that what few things I've read sound really horrible 
I was just coming onto the thread to add a link to this informative obituary by Adam Sweeting.
I was just coming onto the thread to add a link to this informative obituary by Adam Sweeting.
Fascinating interview by Alex Petridis with Cosey Fanni Tutti -- hope it's OK to add that link here
And a great detailed profile from December 2018 of Genesis P. Orridge/the whole set of their projects as well.
And a great detailed profile from December 2018 of Genesis P. Orridge/the whole set of their projects as well.
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