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Life after the SWP?

SpineyNorman said:
It's not but don't worry about it - I'll send you a PM when I've got time to go into it (probably Friday, I'm just stupidly busy right now) and you'll get an alert so you shouldn't have any trouble figuring out how to reply. I'd normally have a chat with you right away, I'm not meaning to be rude, but I've got a deadline I need to meet and there's 4 years work riding on it so I can't take much time away from it - shouldn't be on here at all really but I can't help myself.
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No problem - I'll look forward to it! :)
 
barney_pig said:
I have a friend, a lovely woman, who sincerely believes in new age stuff, and who has recently 'qualified' in the practice of Reki massage. All her withering about power nodes and hot rocks and the like are more convincing than the notion that giving a 19 yo student a party card and a bundle of socialist workers magically imbibes them with a higher level of consciousness.
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:D nice one. You should do stand-up.
 
chilango said:
"Organised workers" must be, in the Uk, at their lowest level for generations. Yet this is where you think you should focus?
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LOL
1. As butchers pointed out, I haven't gone through exactly what I mean by organised workers. However, I have previously mentioned I'm sure, focusing on organised AND UNORGANISED. Because >>>>
2. Formally organised workers is indeed at the lowest level it has been probably since the 1930s. However there has been other periods in history where formally organised workers in the UK have been at a lower level than they are now. The lower level is not a static, or irreversible situation, is it?

Edited to change last question.
3. Is there any indication that organisation in the community is at a highest level for generations? the point I'm trying to make it, the level of organisation in the workplace the community does not bar focus from either imo. so I don't understand your point, beyond pointing out the obviously true.
 
ResistanceMP3 said:
If your objection to focusing on the workplace...
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Is it just me, or is this thread going through a version of Groundhog Day?

No one is objecting to focusing on the workplace, just to focusing only on it to the exclusion of also focusing on community stuff. Is that really so hard to understand/practice?
 
andysays said:
Is it just me, or is this thread going through a version of Groundhog Day?

No one is objecting to focusing on the workplace, just to focusing only on it to the exclusion of also focusing on community stuff. Is that really so hard to understand/practice?
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And who has said focus only on the workplace to the exclusion of also focusing on the community? Not me. I've pointed to many examples of socialists, and even myself focusing on the community at times.
 
andysays said:
Is it just me, or is this thread going through a version of Groundhog Day?

No one is objecting to focusing on the workplace, just to focusing only on it to the exclusion of also focusing on community stuff. Is that really so hard to understand/practice?
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Come back in ten years andy, he'll still be doing this. I kid you not. He's spent the last ten years doing it anyway.
 
it's not the fact that people might have reactionary ideas or be more or less informed about stuff, its the idea that being in the vanguard means you know more than anyone else, that you're part of an "advanced layer" or whatever. Surely Marxists should constantly re evaluate their positions and not just assume that their theories are correct which is what a "higher level of consciousness" is basically saying, that they know best. It is not a very marxist idea anyway especially when you consider that you're constantly exposed to bourgeois ideology every day as well as the assumptions that living in a capitalist society creates. I mean fuck I know a fair bit about marxism but I still have my prejudices and still am a product of the society I live and there's probably loads of shit I'm thinking/doing wrong that I don't even know about.
 
barney_pig said:
I have a friend, a lovely woman, who sincerely believes in new age stuff, and who has recently 'qualified' in the practice of Reki massage. All her withering about power nodes and hot rocks and the like are more convincing than the notion that giving a 19 yo student a party card and a bundle of socialist workers magically imbibes them with a higher level of consciousness.
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Do you know my mum? She has just qualified in this too, and believes in all that stuff. :hmm:
 
frogwoman said:
it's not the fact that people might have reactionary ideas or be more or less informed about stuff, its the idea that being in the vanguard means you know more than anyone else, that you're part of an "advanced layer" or whatever. Surely Marxists should constantly re evaluate their positions and not just assume that their theories are correct which is what a "higher level of consciousness" is basically saying, that they know best. It is not a very marxist idea anyway especially when you consider that you're constantly exposed to bourgeois ideology every day as well as the assumptions that living in a capitalist society creates. I mean fuck I know a fair bit about marxism but I still have my prejudices and still am a product of the society I live and there's probably loads of shit I'm thinking/doing wrong that I don't even know about.
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it took me a year and a half to read capital. I learnt the same stuff within a week of working in a call centre...
 
frogwoman said:
it's not the fact that people might have reactionary ideas or be more or less informed about stuff, its the idea that being in the vanguard means you know more than anyone else, that you're part of an "advanced layer" or whatever. Surely Marxists should constantly re evaluate their positions and not just assume that their theories are correct which is what a "higher level of consciousness" is basically saying, that they know best. It is not a very marxist idea anyway especially when you consider that you're constantly exposed to bourgeois ideology every day as well as the assumptions that living in a capitalist society creates. I mean fuck I know a fair bit about marxism but I still have my prejudices and still am a product of the society I live and there's probably loads of shit I'm thinking/doing wrong that I don't even know about.
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Dialectics, Aufheben/aufhebung and all that.
 
love detective said:
You probably don't want to hear that the bit that you didn't get to, the final quarter/final part is by far the biggest head fuck of Volume 2!

You should give it another go though, Vol2 is very much underrated/overlooked/under appreciated
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i think it was more the having to read it at the pace of the reading group that was the problem. Think ill probably go back to finishing it then, its shit that harveys lectures on it dont take you all the way through the book though :(
 
I wasn't referring to anything on this thread btw. As you may have noticed I'm rethinking a whole load of stuff.
 
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