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Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

goldenecitrone said:
I wonder if they are going to catch him and what will happen to him when they do. Will they want to humiliate him or just kill him?
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Yes, there is a chance that they will just shoot him on the spot or string him up, what chance I wonder of them keeping him alive to see the inside of the Hague ICC?
 
THE ONLY CHANCE HE HAS OF SEEING THE HAUGE IS if some 3rd party captures him.
otherwise its going to be a swift trial and the rope or firing squad.
 
there's a report here on al jazera regarding some support from an american businessman - I presume his company had existing contracts with the Libyan government

Dennis Kucinich doesn't come out of it very well. It's one thing opposing NATOs action but it's another to be actually working with the regime

 
That's a pretty explosive report. Among other things it pretty strongly implies that Israel would be willing to help Gaddafi stay in power.
 
Not too much of a surprise is it, unless you're of the view Israel has been an advocate of democracy in the Arab world. A view which would rather fly in the face of 50 years of history. It also parallels the USAs long-term policy in central and south America, as well as North Africa of course.
 
I still find it surprising. Israel & G were supposedly blood enemies. Guess it was all for show for both of them.
 
TomUS said:
I still find it surprising. Israel & G were supposedly blood enemies. Guess it was all for show for both of them.
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For all its boasts about being "Middle East's only democracy", Israel prefers autocratic Arab regimes.Israel, above all else is afraid of genuine representational governance in the Arab world. It showed this by siding with Mubarak during the Egyptian uprising. A genuinely democratic regime that accurately reflects the wishes of Arab citizens would be staunchly anti Israel. In Libya it needn't have worried because all indications are that the TNC is going to recognise Israel.
 
yes but the TNC is the first stage of getting Libya up and running.
Don't scare the yanks till you have cash and a goverment up and running.
Only a fucking idiot would start an argument with Israel when you haven't got your own state up and running and if Hamas was getting cash off Gadaffi they might just suffer a slight problem getting support from libya:oops: for awhile.
give libya a bit of time to sort its act out before it gets involved in Israel if at all.
a lot of tyrants encouraged hatred of Israel to avoid people asking awkward questions
 
likesfish said:
yes but the TNC is the first stage of getting Libya up and running.
Don't scare the yanks till you have cash and a goverment up and running.
Only a fucking idiot would start an argument with Israel when you haven't got your own state up and running and if Hamas was getting cash off Gadaffi they might just suffer a slight problem getting support from libya:oops: for awhile.
give libya a bit of time to sort its act out before it gets involved in Israel if at all.
a lot of tyrants encouraged hatred of Israel to avoid people asking awkward questions
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I think that's right. The Libyans have a lot of work to do, changing from a dictatorship/monarchy to some kind of democracy, hopefully. If they can form a government that reflects the will of their people, I assume it will be quite critical of Israel. And I think it will be more effective & legitimate criticism than that done by the crazy brutal clown Gadaffi.
 
Israel is bricking itself If the new regimes sort themselves out and become representative and functioning its going to be a whole new ball game
 
Assad is the outlet for G's propaganda. Makes me more glad G is overthrown & feel more disgust for the Alawite boys. They seem somewhat similar in many ways, cult of personality....etc.
 
Rebels have rounded up over 5000 black Africans.

Rebel forces and armed civilians are rounding up thousands of black Libyans and migrants from sub-Sahara Africa, accusing them of fighting for ousted strongman Moammar Gadhafi and holding them in makeshift jails across the capital.
Aladdin Mabrouk, a spokesman for Tripoli's military council, said no one knows how many people have been detained in the city, but he guessed more than 5,000. While no central registry exists, he said neighborhood councils he knows have between 200 and 300 prisoners each. The city of 1.8 million has dozens of such groups.
In the Khallat al-Firjan neighborhood in south Tripoli, Associated Press reporters saw rebel forces punching a dozen black men before determining they were innocent migrant workers and releasing them.
The Gate of the Sea club near Tripoli's fishing port became a lockup Monday night, when residents rounded up people in the surrounding area.
Guards at the club said they looked for unfamiliar faces, then asked for IDs. Those without papers or whose legal residences were distant cities were marched to the club.
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http://news.yahoo.com/libyan-rebels-round-black-africans-130723394.html
 
I've been away for a few days but I see the BBC has started to reveal more about the messy complex realities of Libya. And earlier in the week AlJazeera were starting to pay proper attention to the plight of the African migrant workers.

I see that some documents that reveal details of our co-operation with Gaddafi in the past have come to light, will post again when I have seen the details.
 
Before I forget, I would like to add a small detail in regard to some stories Dylan posted on another thread. This was what was posted:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/31/world/africa/31tripoli.html

One example of the divisions within the rebellion the Times highlights is the appointment of Abdel Hakim al-Hasadi, also known as AbdelHakim Belhaj, as the Tripoli Military Council's commander.​


Liberals on the rebels' interim governing body, the Transitional National Council, told the Times that they feared Hasadi's appointment signaled the makings of an Islamist coup because, they said, he helped lead a rebellion in the '90s with the Libyan Islamist Fighting Group. They also raised concerns about his links to Qatar, which supported Hasadi's military brigade in the current rebellion.​


"This guy is just a creation of the Qataris and their money, and they are sponsoring the element of Muslim extremism here," an unnamed council member from western Libya told the Times. "The revolutionary fighters are extremely unhappy and surprised. He is the commander of nothing​
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I was watching AlJazeera Arabic when live footage of rebels inside Gaddafi's compound was being broadcast soon after it fell. Couldn't understand a word of it, but I saw an important looking man being interviewed live, and I wondered who he was. I now know that it was Abdel Hakin al-Hasadi, based on images. I remembered his face partly because when he turned up in a car for the interview, there was a moment of what sounded like panic behind the camera, I believe because the car was driving fairly recklessly and got a bit too close to the camera for comfort, but I could be wrong about that as I can't speak the language.

So anyways, he was in am important location on the ground at the right time, so I doubt everyone shares the opinion that he is 'the commander of nothing'.

Being interviewed by AlJaz could be taken as some further evidence of a Qatar link, though whether they are really doing this against the West's wishes is unclear to me.
 
Also of interest to see what was being said about him back in March, apparently he was the man Gaddafi name dropped when babbling about an Islamic Emeriate having been setup in the east of Libya.

http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2011/03/libyan_opposition_leader_wasnt.php

Includes this:
In a recent interview with Il Sole, an Italian publication, al Hasadi explained: "I have never been to Guantanamo. I was captured in 2002 in Peshawar in Pakistan, while I was returning from Afghanistan where I fought against the foreign invasion. I was handed over to the Americans, and held for a few months in Islamabad, delivered to Libya, and released in 2008."
So, by his own account, al Hasadi joined the jihad in Afghanistan. There's more. Il Sole asked al Hasadi about the jihadists sent from Iraq to Libya to fight.
"I sent over about 25," al Hasadi told Il Sole's reporter. "Some came back, and today are on the Ajdabiya front; they are patriots and good Muslims, not terrorists. I condemn the September 11 attacks, and attacks against innocent civilians in general. But the members of al Qaeda are also good Muslims, and are fighting against the invader."
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He has an interesting CV. Hasidi is also known as Abdul Hakim Belhadj. Now Military Governor of Tripoli and former Al Qaeda figure who was once captured, renditioned and tortured by the CIA. But not to worry, apparently he's changed and now believes in liberal democracy.

abdul_hakim_belhadj.jpg


Meet Mr Abdul Hakim Belhadj. His credentials include training in Afghanistan by Al Qaeda (fighting for several years against the coalition) and later working closely with Ayman Al Zawahiri, becoming a high ranking Commander of Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. Captured in Malaysia, he endured torture in Bangkok by US forces. He soon went on to work with Saif Al Islam. Captured again, he eventually served time in the infamous Abu Salim Prison. Most recently he has been promoted to Military Governor of Tripoli under the NT
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http://www.counterfire.org/index.php/articles/opinion/14572-the-libyan-quagmire.
 
files have turned up that the cia and mi6 were doing dodgy deals as regards Islamists and libyan intelligence
although in the 90s Mi6 may have helped trained islamists to try and kill gaddafi:hmm:
Spooks you just can't trust them:facepalm:
 
dylans said:
Yeah . Same guy, just a bit scruffier in the photo I placed

Here's a couple more of him

thumb.php


_55050061_012756959-1.jpg
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Well, I remain unconvinced. The 2 pictures you have posted here are of the bloke I saw. in fact the first picture looks like its taken from the live footage I saw, because I recognise the crowd around him.

But that first image you posted earlier still looks like a different person to me, and given the following correction to the NYT article, I am inclined to think that 2 different people have gotten mixed up by sections of the media. They look similar but not that similar.

An earlier version of this article incorrectly stated that commander of the newly formed Tripoli Military Council, AbdelHakim Belhaj, was also known as Abdel Hakim al-Hasadi. They are in fact two different people.
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Maybe this will help work out which one is which.

Abdul-Hakeem_Elhsad_604623a.jpg


Above is from this May article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-is-full-of-recruits-for-alqaida-2281170.html

25libyans1-popup.jpg

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/04/25/world/africa/25libyans1.html

Caption is 'Abdul-Hakim al-Hasadi is a rebel fighter in Libya.'

I tentatively conclude that this guy is al-Hasadi and is not the declared commander of Tripoli Miliary Council, nor the man I saw at Gaddafis compound on the day it fell.

Nothings bloody simple regarding Libya information is it? Even if I become more certain of the photographic evidence in future, now I don't know if any of the stories about Abdul Hakin Belhadj's past are wrong and are really the past of al-Hasadi.
 
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