Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

[dylans]

I think more than anything is that it has produced a fundamental breach of trust between the media and what they are being told by the TNC. Any journalist worth their salt would have already been sceptical about that they were being fed by the TNC but now its the case that they won't be able to believe what they are told until they see if with their own eyes - which is difficult in a war zone

Far more significant than that. It has produced a fundamental breach of trust between the TNC and fighters on the ground. BBC is reporting that forces from the Nefusa mountains are "unhappy" with the TNC and have withdrawn from the Capital complaining that the situation in the city is not nearly as under rebel control as the TNC are claiming. I expected factional divisions to arise within the opposition fairly soon, I didn't expect it to happen quite so fast. It is also clear that loyalist forces control large areas of the city.Tripoli is turning into Beirut

The main thing it wants is no threat to Israel, no harboring of "terrorist" organizations dedicated to Israel's destruction. Peace with Israel is going to be a sine qua non for any middle eastern government from now on.

I think Israel is a clear illustration of the stark differences of interests between an independant soveriegn nation and US geo political interests and a good example of precisely why the US is so afraid of genuine representative government. Arabs are anti Israel, the occupation remains a burning scar on the Arab world therefore any genuine representative Arab government whether in Egypt, Libya or anywhere else, would reflect that. This is something that is anathema to US geopolitical interests in the region which are built around security for Israel. For this reason the US has long supported compliant local ruling elites who rule through authoritarian unrepresentative regimes against the wishes of their people and for this reason the US is terrified of genunely representative democratic institutions in the Arab world. I see no reason why Libya will be any different. On the contrary, all indications are that NATO intends to follow this model to the letter. The TNC is NATO's baby and it will bloody well do as its told. It is this that will be the source of much factional conflict as other forces emerge that do not represent US interests and are excluded and repressed​

 

[camouflage]

For your consideration...



I definitely agree there's been boots on the ground for weeks now (or ninja-slippers more like... lol) and that the intervention is about Western business interests and fuck all to do with the people. I don't hold out much hope that the likes of trade unions and womens rights organizations will be allowed anywhere near power, unless first hollowed out and glove-puppeted. I expect a lurch to hardcore Islamism with softly-spoken Western support, Islamism (and religion in general imo) is probably the best way to undermine workers/womens rights and political/economic sovereignty in general given the circumstances. The media will tell us it's just their way of course.

 

[likesfish]

Western business interests = being able to plan for the next 12 months that limited aim achieved they don't care if the cash is spunked up the wall on palaces go-go dancers in uniforms and Lamborghini jeeps ( even the mod wouldn't have brought land-rovers off lambo
Or stuff the people might like ( obviously not lambo jeeps as that's a bloody stupid idea even if you do have a vast desert to play in )
Hopefully the Libyans have some decent lawyers who can screw the oil company's till they scream

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Sky's Alex Crawford is back on the scene and on the frontline now:

http://audioboo.fm/boos/447789-incr...port-from-sky-s-alex-crawford-at-the-hospital

 

[Divisive Cotton]

1152:
Hany Soufrakis, NTC spokesman in Cairo, tells Newshour on the BBC World Service that "we are getting a lot of reports that a lot of [Gaddafi supporters] are taking different kinds of drugs... that are hallucinogenic".

 

[Divisive Cotton]

there some bonkers tweets about fighting by journos and ordinary residents on or near the frontline in Tripoli.

It seems like the rebels are concentrating all their firepower on the Gadaffi compound Bab al-Azizia

 

[Jonti]

Al Jazeera's Libya Live Blog has just reported ...

Al Jazeera correspondent in Libya:

"Rebels enter the first gate into Bab Al-Aziziyah camp. Gaddafi's forces have pulled back to Sirte and Al Jafra in the south".

 

[elbows]

There is a lot of thick black smoke coming from the area of his compound, its been shown on various news channels via live camera feed recently.

Here is a photo from a different source, same smoke I believe.

 

[dylans]

NATO " We are not involved in regime change"

British and Nato Military commanders are planning what they hope will be a final onslaught on Colonel Gaddafi's forces to put an end to all resistance from troops loyal to the Libyan leader.


After being caught by surprise by the speed of the rebel advance on Tripoli, Nato chiefs have ordered what defence officials on Tuesday called a "tactical pause" in the bombing campaign.
But the pause will not last long and the bombing of what strategic targets are left in Tripoli will resume possibly as early as Tuesday night, alliance officials said.
The Guardian has learned that a number of serving British special forces soldiers, as well as ex-SAS troopers, are now advising rebel forces, though their presence is officially denied.

"Nato confirms it has aircraft over Tripoli today," the official said when asked about reports it had launched an air strike against the compound.
"We haven't heard from our aircraft whether they found it necessary to take action," the official said, adding: "We don't have any indications right now."

So that's a yes then

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2011/aug/23/libya-tripoli-battle-live-updates

 

[elbows]

Via the BBC, assert itself indeed, humph:

1550:

Some observers argue that Europe has been behind the curve on North Africa, a region the EU refers to as its southern neighbourhood. They say that with the US preoccupied with other challenges, the EU needs to assert itself on the southern shore of the Mediterranean.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

The latest is that the Gadaffi troops in some or all of the compound have surrended after the rebels broke through the outer parameter - this is from a Reuters reporter on the ground (not TNC)

 

[yardbird]

The latest is that the Gadaffi troops in some or all of the compound have surrended after the rebels broke through the outer parameter - this is from a Reuters reporter on the ground (not TNC)

"Some of the Gadaffi troops have stopped fighting" This relates to the outer part of the compound.

Reuters: Rebel forces "pouring" into the compound.

 

[likesfish]

its more or less over Gaddafi has lost his compound he's not coming back.
I wonder what happens next

 

[elbows]

 

[BlackArab]

View attachment 12960

If I win the lottery, I want to buy that golden fist for my garden, now that's what I call bling

 

[Divisive Cotton]

i reckon in a couple of weeks they'll be selling it on eBay

 

[BlackArab]

True, you gotta love Arab dictator art though

 

[elbows]

If I win the lottery, I want to buy that golden fist for my garden, now that's what I call bling

There seems to be a golden gun to go with it:

 

[BlackArab]

Cool, I wonder who had the best collection Gaddafi or Saddam?

 

[weltweit]

I wonder if Gaddafi has gone to ground like Saddam did.

In a hole!!

I also wonder if he will survive to see the court at the Hague.

 

[elbows]

Well there are long-standing rumours of a large tunnel complex, which will obviously get talked about a lot now. Oh just as I type this Sky News have started going on about the tunnels, specifically a tunnel between his compound and the hotel where the journalists are.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

I wonder if Gaddafi has gone to ground like Saddam did.

In a hole!!

I also wonder if he will survive to see the court at the Hague.

Bab-al-Aziziya has tunnels connecting the whole of Tripoli. It would takes ages to find him there. He's probably got an escape route planned.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

Apparently next on the list is liberating the journos from the Rixos

 

[elbows]

There were some twitter reports a little while ago that suggested there was gunfire inside the hotel.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Well there are long-standing rumours of a large tunnel complex, which will obviously get talked about a lot now. Oh just as I type this Sky News have started going on about the tunnels, specifically a tunnel between his compound and the hotel where the journalists are.

In the 80's a lot of discreet building projects were started, many of them involving digging for miles and miles on end, and no-one was told what they were for. So after speculating some people reckon they figured it out. There's also a similar complex in Benghazi. Having had lots of time and money to chuck at it they may well stretch miles outside Tripoli. Many secure rooms w/electricity and tonnes of supplies, I imagine.

 

[Divisive Cotton]

He was big on building nuclear-bomb proof bunkers wasn't he. They seem to be spread all over Libya

 

[BlackArab]

I've made an offer to the freedom fighters via Twitter for the golden hand, said I'll do a DJ set for free in return. Waiting for a reply.

 

[elbows]

Gaddafis wardrobe appears to have been liberated.

 

[butchersapron]

That bloke was really on top of it as well.Great interview.

 

[elbows]

There goes the golf buggy.