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Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement

There is a Taliban. They are called the Abu Obeida al-Jarrah Brigade and they even include several former inmates of Guantanamo. They are the second largest faction in the opposition and are the people responsible for assassinating General Younis last month. True, there is no Pakistan next door (though I dispute that Pakistan is supplying weapons to the Taliban). Neither is it a destroyed country like Afghanistan, nevertheless it is a tribally and regionally divided country (like Afghanistan). with a future government that will have to deal with those divisions and like Afghanistan has the potential to explode into tribal and ideological factionalism. Like Afghanistan a government is being installed by the West who have chosen one side in a civil war. (in Afghanistan it was the Northern Alliance) Like Afghanistan the rebel forces were losing until Western firepower propelled them to power. Like Afghanistan, the regime installed is deeply divided along tribal and ideological lines. Finally, like Afghanistan, the West rushed into an ill concieved open ended conflict with little understanding of the nature of the country. The analogy is limited, I accept, nevertheless there are enough similarities to serve as a warning for the future.
although i'm told this little war owed quite a bit to the eu's plans for north africa with regard to renewable energy and libya's refusal to take part. that seems to be something you haven't factored in to your little equation.
 
newsflash: libya is having a civil war

how else would you describe what's been happening over the past few months, a little contretemps between friends?

Of course I agree this is a civil war. The tragedy is the installation of a TNC government riven with factionalism will lay the seeds for another one. Only one thing unites the opposition, the overthrow of Gaddafi. Now this is done the danger is factionalism will emerge in a struggle for power.
 
Of course I agree this is a civil war. The tragedy is the installation of a TNC government riven with factionalism will lay the seeds for another one. Only one thing unites the opposition, the overthrow of Gaddafi. Now this is done the danger is factionalism will emerge in a struggle for power.

How would you have preferred the Libyan people to get rid of Gaddafi?
 
I would have preferred the LIbyan people to get rid of Gaddafi. They didn't. NATO did

Without NATO he'd still be in power. And then his sons. For fuck knows how many years. It's not the perfect overthrow of the regime scenario. I think the Libyans have already been suckered into instant gratification.
 
Without NATO he'd still be in power. And then his sons. For fuck knows how many years. It's not the perfect overthrow of the regime scenario. I think the Libyans have already been suckered into instant gratification.

Without NATO Saddam Hussein may still be in power. I still think regime change in Iraq was wrong however.
 
I'm sorry to see, dylans, that you don't seem to have a very high opinion of the Libyians ability to organise themselves.
 
I'm sorry to see, dylans, that you don't seem to have a very high opinion of the Libyians ability to organise themselves.
I have a very high opinion of the ability of Libyans to organise themselves, including making a revolution without NATO support. I have very little opinion of the ability of NATO to provide democracy for them
 
I would have preferred the LIbyan people to get rid of Gaddafi. They didn't. NATO did
tell that to the families of the libyan fighters who've died in this revolution.

yes Nato assisted, and they may well not have managed it without their help, but to say that Nato have done this is pretty disrespectful of many who've fought and bled for this day.
 
Without NATO Saddam Hussein may still be in power. I still think regime change in Iraq was wrong however.

Me, too. I'd have preferred the Iraqi people to get rid of him on their own. They were trying after the first Gulf War until the West backed out and Saddam came down heavily upon them. It wasn't so cut and dried in East Germany when the Wall came down. The Government there came very close to massacring their own people. Thankfully, the commies had a bit more empathy for their own people( and their own skins more likely) than cunts like Gaddafi and Assad.
 
Of course I agree this is a civil war. The tragedy is the installation of a TNC government riven with factionalism will lay the seeds for another one. Only one thing unites the opposition, the overthrow of Gaddafi. Now this is done the danger is factionalism will emerge in a struggle for power.
good. so your wank about libya heading for civil war was, erm, wank.

rather than there being two civil wars this is but the first part of a larger conflict then.
 
tell that to the families of the libyan fighters who've died in this revolution.

yes Nato assisted, and they may well not have managed it without their help, but to say that Nato have done this is pretty disrespectful of many who've fought and bled for this day.
You tell it to them when they see that their country'swealth is stolen by international oil companies and their country becomes a colonial possession of the West or falls into a tribal civil war
 
You tell it to them when they see that their country'swealth is stolen by international oil companies and their country becomes a colonial possession of the West or falls into a tribal civil war

If Libya sells its oil then it is not being stolen. I expect that the Libyans know the worth of their wealth.
 
So where is he then ?...urgent business in Uganda .. ?

Tripoli. But he might be making an escape. He obviously didn't count on it all happening so quickly. Maybe stay it out for a fortnight, enter negotiations. But not happening. Oops!
 
If Libya sells its oil then it is not being stolen. I expect that the Libyans know the worth of their wealth.
What makes you think they are going to get a say in it. A western puppet regime is about to be installed and it will bloody well do as its told
 
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