butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There were reports of navy shelling much earlier - their impact would be devastating, and i think noticed.
Libya - civil unrest & now NATO involvement
- Thread starter ernestolynch
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elbows
Well-Known Member
Libyans btw, I think anyways.
Hmm lessons for Egypt. Some probably realise that one of their greatest strengths in the first phase, the military not using heavy weapons to crush them, is also a weakness when the military are a huge part of the old regime.
However, considering the horror that we see unfolding when even a proportion of the military is still fighting for the old regime, Im not sure they will be ready to accept any lessons that you need to have an armed struggle/get a proportion of the military onside in order to have a full revolution. They can carry on with the workers struggle via strikes for now and cross other bridges when they come to them I guess.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, I think this is right. The Libyan revolution has the potential to really be a revolution. The regime and the military are falling apart and turning on each other.
The likely success in Libya has to help Egyptians in their struggle to 'win the peace', I think. It must also have implications for Algeria - if Gadaffi falls, surely Algeria is next - oil wealth is no protector.
I've not been following this as closely as I should have been, but wow, the Egyptians realised quite early on that the army was unlikely to turn on them. The Libyans must have known that they would. I continue to be humbled by these brave, brave people.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
unfortunately, his guards have huuuge personal loyalty,and are fanatical about the Jamahiriya
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Can't see it just now but someone said they'd seen pics on youtube which have been taken down of body/ies blasted apart. They are now on facebook.
Not safe for work or anywhere. My advice is don't look. There are mutilated bodies. And we know what they look like already.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Time running out - Look at the Iraq when the Republican Guard needed the US bombing the people coming to kill them on the Basra road. They all legged it.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
A still-powerful leader being challenged. We found out with the onset of unrest that the Tunisian and the Egyptian regimes were in fact far weaker than they appeared.
Sorry, I'm probably behind on this. How credible is it that Gadaffi has already fled?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
A still-powerful leader being challenged. We found out with the onset of unrest that the Tunisian and the Egyptian regimes were in fact far weaker than they appeared.
Sorry, I'm probably behind on this. How credible is it that Gadaffi has already fled?
The regimes are still there. In both countries.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They are, kind of, yes. They're not intact though.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Well possible, although the report I read earlier said that when the UN chief spoke to Gadaffi today, he was still somewhere in Libya at the time.
That was me a little while ago quimcunx, i dread to think what attrocities have occurred/are occurring whereby there is no way of getting the word out. I have heard very little news coming from Benghazi, i have grave fears. The 2 fighter pilots who defected after seeing their colleagues firing at the crowds, well, how many other fighters did fire or bomb the people?
1%er
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure much has changed for Tunisian or Egyptian people as yet, time will tell if they end up better off or not. The difference between Libya and the others is the tribal system in Libya is still very strong and I believe it will comedown to how many tribal leaders back Gadaffi.
A still-powerful leader being challenged. We found out with the onset of unrest that the Tunisian and the Egyptian regimes were in fact far weaker than they appeared.
Sorry, I'm probably behind on this. How credible is it that Gadaffi has already fled?
elbows
Well-Known Member
By last night all but 2 tribes (including Gadaffis own) were reported to have come out against the regime.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Depends what these 'tribes' control as well.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Where was that reported? It was reported on the news here today that a meeting is taking place later this week
elbows
Well-Known Member
Where was that reported? It was reported on the news here today that a meeting is taking place later this week
A variety of different sources & people who know about the tribes there collating the different reports. I wouldnt bank on it being 100% true but certainly the Wallafi figurehead whose name escapes me right now has been publically quoted as coming out against Gadaffi, and they are the biggest tribe in Libya I think?
1%er
Well-Known Member
As was mentioned above it will depend on who controls what and who will get what in the end.
It seems that Gadaffi has lost control of the people he placed in the UN if reports are to be believed
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Smiled reading this...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
How many didn't refuse, though.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Their families will pay, if Gadafi has any choice in the matter. Can't have other pilots getting ideas.
teqniq
DisMembered
How many didn't refuse, though.
enough.
Atrocities have been and still are being committed apparentlythere are also unconfirmed reports on twitter that there are oil rigs on fire in the desert
elbows
Well-Known Member
By the way if anybody wants to monitor the official Libyan tv news station for signs of any change to its programming, or of being taken off the air, its on the web via this site:
http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/b1951.htm
The picture often freezes for me but its good enough to get a sense of what they are broadcasting.
http://wwitv.com/tv_channels/b1951.htm
The picture often freezes for me but its good enough to get a sense of what they are broadcasting.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If he survives long enough to exact a revenge they will.
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