Would you mind providing some evidence for this claim? And the others you've made but not backed up. Thanks.
J30 strike: NUT, PCS, UCU, ATL call for a general strike on June 30th
- Thread starter ymu
- Start date
Would you mind providing some evidence for this claim? And the others you've made but not backed up. Thanks.
past caring
The Cathars were right
I can certainly believe that's true of the small business that employs you.
Athos
Well-Known Member
They could afford it; they'd just make less profit.
It would come off their tax bill so it would still be ordinary workers who footed the bill.
Athos
Well-Known Member
Of course. It's ordinary workers who create all value.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
This was exactly the argument the Tories used against minumum wage. It misses the point which is that people don't live to work. They work to live and without decent pay and conditions what's the point? so if your hypothetical small business can't afford to give its employees the minimum level of decent pay and conditions then it's not a viable business and should go bust. Your argument could be used to justify all manner of atrocious labour practices including slavery. I'm sure I could think of a business model that only works by employing child labour at a pound a week but that wouldn't make it right. In fact I can just imagine Victorian chimney sweep companies complaining that raising the working age and enacting health and safety legislation would ruin them. People like you would defend the right of struggling industrial textile mills to employ street urchins.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
She's a chimney sweep
Looby
Well-Known Member
If it's one where she has to answer questions or make reasoned arguments no wonder they're struggling.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBH on the small business point alone "Lizzie" is not wrong - lots of them are struggling, and cannot afford to pay large sums in terms of pay, benefits etc etc. Of course, the reasons why many of those firms are struggling are usually because of such things as very high business rates, idiot town planning, deeply unfair competition practices from much bigger companies, uncaring (or as Private Eye have demonstrated, actively destructive) attitudes held by the relevant banks, and the general uselessness of UK economic policy since 1997 (of which the NEST scheme will probably have the biggest negative effect). On your second point, very few small companies are actively bad employers - its usually the medium-to-large scale firms and (especially) agencies who are the worst offenders.
little_legs
Поехали!
somes kids and loads of teens were protesting too. yay!
little_legs
Поехали!
more
little_legs
Поехали!
I reckon even sick police officers were asked to come to work today, there were too many of them today.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Nuff said.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Andrew Hertford
Chocolate Jesus
You're wrong on this one dylans, most small businesses are struggling at the moment. You only have to look at all the empty units on high streets and in retail parks to realise that. And like agricola, I just don't recognise the small business owner as Victorian tyrant stereotype, it certainly isn't true of the ones I know, some of whom are even paying their employees more than they pay themselves at the moment.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
Which is why they need to unionise and organise.
grit
an ugly force for good
Its very common for a small business owner to pay everyone else first and if there is a hit, they take it. I've seen friends max out personal credit cards to make sure they didnt miss payroll.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
No they don't. yet again you simply do not know your facts. You are, I'm afraid, talking complete and utter drivel.
And, being a small business doesn't give you the right to treat people like shit.
dylans
overlord of all acorns
I know many small businesses are struggling. That's not my point, My point is all businesses small or large recognise that there are some unavoidable costs to being in business, one of those unavoidable costs is the duty to pay your workforce properly and to observe an acceptable level of working conditions. If a business can't do that then it isn't a viable business. We wouldn't accept a business not paying its taxes because it is struggling, likewise we shouldn't accept a business not treating its employees properly because it is struggling. My point is that "small businesses are struggling" is the same argument that the tories put forward for opposing the minimum wage and legal rights for workers as well as for defending low pay and it is not an argument that is any more valid than small businesses using that argument to excuse tax evasion
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
That is surely wrong though - many big businesses clearly do not accept that they have to pay or treat their workforce properly, yet they remain viable entities (you just have to look at Apple as an example of that, or any of a hundred firms that moved their operations overseas for solely profit reasons). Nor do that many small businesses practice tax evasion - they cant afford either the penalties of failing (given that HMRC actually enforce the law against them), or the fees of the likes of KPMG (who are required to do it properly).
dylans
overlord of all acorns
For sure. Doesn't make it right though.
Brixton Hatter
Home is south London mate
Here's a distribution of 'gold plated' civil service pensions. Most people get a few hundred quid a month at best.
