J18: 10th Anniversary

[partyzan]

So it would appear there are plans are afoot for another Stop the City event and Gov of the Dead are marketing it as, and I quote:

Biigger, bolder, Better. Be there or be regretful ever more.

Judging from the accounts I've read I think it'd be a hard act to follow.

The purpose of the thread is to stimulate discussion around J18 and whether the proposed mobilistaion is likely to achieve the same level of support 10 years on, especially as RTS are no longer on the scene - which has been addressed in a recent thread http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=235736

 

[JHE]

With ten years now to have thought it over, do you think there is anything to celebrate or that 'J18' and similar stunts have achieved anything? Personally, I don't care if you dress up and have some daft street party in the City or not, but now you are a bit older, surely you ask yourself, 'What's the fucking point?'

 

[albionism]

Anyone know the name of the
punk band that played at the first J18?
Had a song called "Grow More Weed" i think.
They were a good laugh.

 

[albionism]

found 'em, called P.A.I.N
http://vodpod.com/watch/597529-p-a-i-n-and-howard-marks-let-me-grow-more-weed

 

[_float_]

Funny yesterday I was watching Commander Bob Broadhurst on BBC Parliament giving evidence to the commons select committee about the April 1st G20 policing, and he was talking about J18 as being an example of where the police "got it wrong" and went for 'dispersal' instead of 'containment' (kettling). He said that because dispersal was used a large amount of property damage (I think he said £30 million) was caused by people going in all directions (he claimed that people had smashed all the car windows on their way across Waterloo Bridge). This was all by way of justifying the decision to kettle everyone at the Bank of England.

The other interesting thing he said was that on April 1st they had been afraid that the four separate marches would head in different directions (like they did on J18) and end up storming offices and causing lots of small outbreaks of disorder and damage that would be very hard to deal with. He implied that they were surprised when the four marches on April 1st actually all met up as announced at the Bank of England (where they could be neatly 'contained').

Now, I'd been thinking all these things myself (I posted as much here on u75 around the time of G20) but I was surprised to hear Bob Broadhurst actually give out this information on TV about the police strategy and thinking.

I'll leave it to everyone here to "join the dots" about what this might imply about the "Festival of the Dead" lot in comparison with the original RTS.

 

[_float_]

IMO putting on an event purely to "celebrate" J18 is to disappear right up -edit- [our] own arsehole and I don't understand why the festival of the dead lot feel like they are the ones to be doing a call-out on it either.

If people really want to 'celebrate' J18 in 2009 they should do something entirely new and different, that resonates with young people today and which addresses some of the range of issues and political causes that were being talked about back then - or similar ones now. If it's just people wanting to be nostalgic then there are probably more discrete ways of getting together this summer with other 'old-timers', raising a glass to 'back then' and trading stories about how far up the LIFFE escalators they managed to get.

 

[partyzan]

IMO putting on an event purely to "celebrate" J18 is to disappear right up your own arsehole and I don't understand why the festival of the dead lot feel like they are the ones to be doing a call-out on it either.

I'm not actually putting on any event and I didn't attend the last one either, so I won't be disappearing anywhere!

The purpose of the thread is to stimulate discussion around J18 and whether the proposed mobilistaion is likely to achieve the same level of support 10 years on, especially as RTS are no longer on the scene - which has been addressed in a recent thread.

I shall make this clearer in my opening post to avoid any further misunderstanding.

 

[In Bloom]

Are there really still people around who don't know the difference between political action and a random street party where some poor bastards' cars get fucked up?

 

[PeterTCA]

Funny yesterday I was watching Commander Bob Broadhurst on BBC Parliament giving evidence to the commons select committee about the April 1st G20 policing, and he was talking about J18 as being an example of where the police "got it wrong" and went for 'dispersal' instead of 'containment' (kettling). He said that because dispersal was used a large amount of property damage (I think he said £30 million) was caused by people going in all directions (he claimed that people had smashed all the car windows on their way across Waterloo Bridge). This was all by way of justifying the decision to kettle everyone at the Bank of England.

The other interesting thing he said was that on April 1st they had been afraid that the four separate marches would head in different directions (like they did on J18) and end up storming offices and causing lots of small outbreaks of disorder and damage that would be very hard to deal with. He implied that they were surprised when the four marches on April 1st actually all met up as announced at the Bank of England (where they could be neatly 'contained').

Now, I'd been thinking all these things myself (I posted as much here on u75 around the time of G20) but I was surprised to hear Bob Broadhurst actually give out this information on TV about the police strategy and thinking.

I'll leave it to everyone here to "join the dots" about what this might imply about the "Festival of the Dead" lot in comparison with the original RTS.

Good post. Basic Clausewitz. Always listen to your opponent's complaints. Always maintain an appreciation of the "unpredictability" of war.

 

[_float_]

I'm not actually putting on any event and I didn't attend the last one either, so I won't be disappearing anywhere!

Sorry that comment wasn't aimed directly at you, it was a general observation. I should have said 'diasappear up our own arseholes'.

 

[partyzan]

Are there really still people around who don't know the difference between political action and a random street party where some poor bastards' cars get fucked up?

But surely "random street parties" as you put it, could be defined as political action if the purpose is to celebrate resistance against oppression, injustice and exploitation. I accept that it can all appear a little lifestylist to your average member of the public, and maybe even alienate them, but that doesn't make the action any less political or legitimate in nature.

 

[partyzan]

Sorry that comment wasn't aimed directly at you, it was a general observation. I should have said 'diasappear up our own arseholes'.

Cheers for that

 

[tbaldwin]

With ten years now to have thought it over, do you think there is anything to celebrate or that 'J18' and similar stunts have achieved anything? Personally, I don't care if you dress up and have some daft street party in the City or not, but now you are a bit older, surely you ask yourself, 'What's the fucking point?'

J18 to me was a good thing. But to have any lasting effect would mean that it would have to have a follow up plan. If the organisers had been after something achievable and planned weekly demos until they got what they were after it would have been good.

 

[In Bloom]

But surely "random street parties" as you put it, could be defined as political action if the purpose is to celebrate resistance against oppression, injustice and exploitation.

No.

I accept that it can all appear a little lifestylist to your average member of the public, and maybe even alienate them, but that doesn't make the action any less political or legitimate in nature.

No.

 

[partyzan]

But surely "random street parties" as you put it, could be defined as political action if the purpose is to celebrate resistance against oppression, injustice and exploitation.

No.

I accept that it can all appear a little lifestylist to your average member of the public, and maybe even alienate them, but that doesn't make the action any less political or legitimate in nature.

No.

As concise a piece of political analysis that I've come across in a long time, would you care to elaborate?

 

[smokedout]

didnt you realise that inbloom is the judge of the legitimancy of all political activity even though he was still a child when the original j18 happened

he prefers stalls as a means of revolutionary activity

 

[smokedout]

re: the op

chris knight and his chums would shit themselves if they ever got anywhere close to what happened on j18

 

[TopCat]

didnt you realise that inbloom is the judge of the legitimancy of all political activity even though he was still a child when the original j18 happened

he prefers stalls as a means of revolutionary activity

In Bloom is the bastard child of LLETSA....

 

[JHE]

J18 to me was a good thing. But to have any lasting effect would mean that it would have to have a follow up plan. If the organisers had been after something achievable and planned weekly demos until they got what they were after it would have been good.

But they didn't have any 'demands' or proposals for achievable reforms, did they? It was just a stunt for a bunch of 'anti-capitalists' to express their vague opposition to the City. There's nothing much wrong with 'anti-capitalists' expressing themselves in that sort of way (everyone needs a hobby, I'm told), but as far as I can see it does no good.

Serious socialists would be more interested in persuading people that there is a feasible and desirable alternative to capitalism, wouldn't they?

 

[JHE]

chris knight and his chums would shit themselves if they ever got anywhere close to what happened on j18

Yeah, those were the days, eh? Did you wear your wizard costume and cast spells on the banks?

 

[smokedout]

Yeah, those were the days, eh? Did you wear your wizard costume and cast spells on the banks?

still obsessed with one post i made about 4 years ago eh

sad fuck

 

[JHE]

With a wave of his wand and some muttered gibberish, the stoned Occultist took on the forces of international capital.

That Chris Knight just shat himself. Cor! He's such a sissy. He hasn't got the magic.

 

[smokedout]

whatever

 

[partyzan]

But they didn't have any 'demands' or proposals for achievable reforms, did they? It was just a stunt for a bunch of 'anti-capitalists' to express their vague opposition to the City. There's nothing much wrong with 'anti-capitalists' expressing themselves in that sort of way (everyone needs a hobby, I'm told), but as far as I can see it does no good.

Serious socialists would be more interested in persuading people that there is a feasible and desirable alternative to capitalism, wouldn't they?

I think the very fact that J18's being discussed ten years on and one of the most senior Police officers in the country revealed just the other day that it has had a significant impact on current policing tactics where political protest is concerned, suggests it has had a pretty "serious" impact.

Anti-capitalism - a "hobby" that involves the risk of serious injury or even death at the hands of a baton wielding militarised police force, the arbitrary withdrawal of your civil liberties, and the threat of arrest and imprisonment. That's some "hobby"!

I'm sure you are a serious socialist and I applaud you unconditionally for that, but perhaps you should consider being a little less judgmental in your assertions, when it comes to those individuals and groups that choose to express their opposition to capitalism through the use of creative and situationalist forms of civil disobedience.

 

[smokedout]

I'm sure you are a serious socialist and I applaud you unconditionally for that, but perhaps you should consider being a little less judgmental in your assertions, when it comes to those individuals and groups that choose to express their opposition to capitalism through the use of creative and situationalist forms of civil disobedience.

dont bite, he's just a lame troll

back to the op, hundreds of people worked for up to a year to put j18 together and it already had the momentum of rts behind it which could guarantee several thousand on the streets

think its great that its being remembered - but to claim this will be bigger, better and bolder is really just a bit daft and a touch arrogant

 

[partyzan]

...

back to the op, hundreds of people worked for up to a year to put j18 together and it already had the momentum of rts behind it which could guarantee several thousand on the streets

think its great that its being remembered - but to claim this will be bigger, better and bolder is really just a bit daft and a touch arrogant

I didn't know that so many people were involved in its planning and for that length of time as well, in which case I would definitely tend to agree with you. Tbh I really have difficulties in seeing how anyone can justify the staging of a demonstration such as this, unless the necessary amount of thought, time, effort and resources have gone into organising it.

 

[In Bloom]

As concise a piece of political analysis that I've come across in a long time, would you care to elaborate?

No

 

[In Bloom]

But seriously, "celebrat[ing] resistance against oppression, injustice and exploitation" is not a form of direct action in and of itself and putting people off by smashing their cars is fucking stupid.

Basically, just because something is fun, doesn't make it a worthwhile form of action.

 

[tbaldwin]

But they didn't have any 'demands' or proposals for achievable reforms, did they? It was just a stunt for a bunch of 'anti-capitalists' to express their vague opposition to the City. There's nothing much wrong with 'anti-capitalists' expressing themselves in that sort of way (everyone needs a hobby, I'm told), but as far as I can see it does no good.

Serious socialists would be more interested in persuading people that there is a feasible and desirable alternative to capitalism, wouldn't they?

No. Your right the organisers didnt really have any achievable aims. But what the day did show is how demostrators could have the power to close down one of the worlds main financial capitals.
The day showed a good example of people power. Unfortunately the people behind the demos didnt know what to do next. And then the SWP stepped in ,by that november they held their own "anti capitalist" demo at Euston station.

 

[smokedout]

Unfortunately the people behind the demos didnt know what to do next. And then the SWP stepped in ,by that november they held their own "anti capitalist" demo at Euston station.

sorry but thats just crap, the euston demo was organised by rts and had nothing to do with the swappies