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Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.

There's also a law, I think, forbidding someone from serving in the US armed forces and the armed forces of another country, but with the exception of Israel.

I'd be interested to see the link for that tho ymu? x
 
ymu said:
It prevents people from promoting the boycott, and pre-deports anyone promoting it abroad.

The US have had a law preventing companies from boycotting Israel for some time, IIRC.
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Given that most people who visit Palestine and support the rights of the Palestinians are also likely to boycott Israeli goods this law also means that Israel can isolate Palestine even more effectively; anyone who writes, speaks, or takes action in favour of the boycott or is involved in any campaign promoting the boycott can be banned from Israel and, by default Palestine.
 
mistere said:
Given that most people who visit Palestine and support the rights of the Palestinians are also likely to boycott Israeli goods this law also means that Israel can isolate Palestine even more effectively; anyone who writes, speaks, or takes action in favour of the boycott or is involved in any campaign promoting the boycott can be banned from Israel and, by default Palestine.
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That's what it's all about. It's very difficult to get in or out of Palestine as it is. This law just makes it easier to restrict movement and ties the hands of the courts when a decision is appealed.

Just one more step to turning the West Bank, as well as Gaza, into a vast open air prison.
 
ymu said:
That's what it's all about. It's very difficult to get in or out of Palestine as it is. This law just makes it easier to restrict movement and ties the hands of the courts when a decision is appealed.

Just one more step to turning the West Bank, as well as Gaza, into a vast open air prison.
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I was lucky enough to visit Gaza City some 15 years ago.

I was working in Jaffa in Tel Aviv, backpacker jobs, washing dishes and busing tables, construction, moving furniture, stuff like that.

I had a house painting job alongside two Palestinian guys who invited me to visit their families in Gaza city. These guys had to do that trip every single day. Every morning at 4 am they would queue up at checkpoints and wait for hours to get through. Then a day of work for shit pay, all off the books, no rights, no health and safety, no guarantee the guy was going to pay. Then they would travel home, back to the checkpoints, back to queueing and humiliation for hours. A few hours with their families, a few hours sleep and then back to Israel and the whole thing again.

I accompanied them back on a Saturday night and I was just swept through the checkpoint. Then spent an hour on the other side waiting for my hosts.

They accepted it because that was the only work they had and they had families but fuck what a life.

Their families were wonderful of course and the trip was 2 days of constant introductions to family and neighbours and invitations to eat and drink tea.

Then at 4 am monday morning back across the checkpoints to Tel Aviv to sit in the sun and hope for a car to drive up and offer a days work.

I was a backpacker, I could leave any time but for these guys this was their life

Now of course they can't even do that
 
"One who has destroyed a single life it is as if one has destroyed an entire world, but one who saves a single life it is as if one has saved an entire world." - Mishna Sanhedrin
 
frogwoman said:
JFJFP have announced that they are loading up Jewish ship for Gaza.
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:cool:

JfJfP are great. None of this Peace Now! bollocks* - actual Justice! :eek:

*If you stop attacking us, we'll stop persecuting you. It's OK if we keep the land and the water though, right?
 
agricola said:
Not really, they will just accuse them of being traitors, self-haters, anti-semites or not really Jewish.
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If they murder Jews going there with a Jewish organisation, how the fuck is that going to play with the Jewish community? How is that going to play with people who are sympathetic to Israel but, like most jews, have "problems" with it? Or people who don't know the first thing about it, are fairly indifferent to the Palestinians, but went on an Israel tour when they were young or the occasional holiday there? Are these people going to look at picures of people in yarmulkes or people lighting Shabbat candles ad so on being shot or arrested and suddenly think, "Wow! Israel must be right - all these people are self-haters and anti-semites and they all deserve to die?" Or are they going to think , something is badly wrong here?
 
frogwoman said:
If they murder Jews going there with a Jewish organisation, how the fuck is that going to play with the Jewish community? How is that going to play with people who are sympathetic to Israel but, like most jews, have "problems" with it? Or people who don't know the first thing about it, are fairly indifferent to the Palestinians, but went on an Israel tour when they were young or the occasional holiday there? Are these people going to look at picures of people in yarmulkes or people lighting Shabbat candles ad so on being shot or arrested and suddenly think, "Wow! Israel must be right - all these people are self-haters and anti-semites and they all deserve to die?" Or are they going to think , something is badly wrong here?
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Look, if people dont already think something is up despite everything that has gone on after the last ten years, then seeing some Orthodox Jews getting beaten up or even shot by the IDF isnt likely to affect matters much.

All that will happen is Regev will do his little tour of the news studios and point out that "these people" are the same type of people who support Iran and Ahmadinejad, who attended the Holocaust Denial conference and who demand the destruction of the state of Israel. He will be supported by the usual talking-heads, as well as the legion of complaint drones.
 
agricola said:
Look, if people dont already think something is up despite everything that has gone on after the last ten years, then seeing some Orthodox Jews getting beaten up or even shot by the IDF isnt likely to affect matters much.
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This ,,,,


The time has long gone for one to be educated on how Israel works... The Apologists for Israel will always justify their actions.. If 1400 dead last year didn't change their minds then I am afraid 9 lives lost is an insignificant statistic in their eyes..

BTW I in no way mean disrespect to the dead activists.
 
The people who are in JFJFP aren't religious freaks though. A lot of them are religious, sure, but they aren't the same people like Neturei Karta and so on who Israel finds it eay to demonise.
 
It's not only that though. There is a massive campaign aimed at getting Jewish peoples support of Israel, through tours, religious study programmes, free holidays paid for by agencies to come and see you "heritage" etc, and in synagogues, etc. Israel would be crazy to attack the JFJFP ship because if that happened it would break, at least in Europe, Jewish people's already quite tenuous support of Israel. Parents would be less willing to send their kids on religious tours of Israel or on Israeli summer youth camps and the like. There would be massive pressure on Jewish organisations to come out with a statement condemning the attack and other aspects of Israel's behaviour, and at the moment people like JFJFP usually tend to be quite alienated from organised Judaism, for obvious reasons.
 
frogwoman said:
It's not only that though. There is a massive campaign aimed at getting Jewish peoples support of Israel, through tours, religious study programmes, free holidays paid for by agencies to come and see you "heritage" etc, and in synagogues, etc. Israel would be crazy to attack the JFJFP ship because if that happened it would break, at least in Europe, Jewish people's already quite tenuous support of Israel. Parents would be less willing to send their kids on religious tours of Israel or on Israeli summer youth camps and the like. There would be massive pressure on Jewish organisations to come out with a statement condemning the attack and other aspects of Israel's behaviour, and at the moment people like JFJFP usually tend to be quite alienated from organised Judaism, for obvious reasons.
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That might happen if the IDF actually sank the boat without warning, but given what the post on the JFJFP website says if the boat is stopped and taken to Ashdod surely they will just be labelled as described above?
 
Perhaps. I do have to say though that Saturday's demo was the demo with the largest number of jews on it I have ever seen, and last year's was simiar and for a number of these people it was the first demonstration they had been on in their lives. Now, obviously most Jews wouldn't go on such demonstrations but if Jews were murdered by Israel in cold blood, the type of people who are not nutters and the sort of people they see every day in the community, it would break a lot of ties with israel and synagogues would be under huge pressure, for the first time, to deliver a statement to the effect of "We utterly condemn Israel's actions." A lot of Jews are held back by religious injunctions not to criticise other Jews or to give the appearance of criticising Israel to the outside world, but if Israel begins to kill Jewish people who are opposing it, then where does that leave these injunctions. Israel would be insane to kill anyone on that boat, especially because it is becoming quite apparent that the majority of its propaganda is no longer believed any more, "even" by Jews.
 
One quick thing on the siege, McClatchy has got hold of an official Israel govt doc that describes it not as a security measure but as part of 'economic warfare:

"A country has the right to decide that it chooses not to engage in economic relations or to give economic assistance to the other party to the conflict, or that it wishes to operate using 'economic warfare,'"
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More
 
ViolentPanda said:
The members of the Knesset really should employ a few scholars of modern European history, so that they don't keep so very nearly approximating Nazi legislation when they seek to stick a pineapple up Palestinian arses. :facepalm:
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Are you referring to the time so beloved of conspiracy theorists when jews "declared war on germany" in response to a boycott of jewish businesses? :facepalm::(
 
agricola said:
Not really, they will just accuse them of being traitors, self-haters, anti-semites or not really Jewish.
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Thing is, those tropes (fortunately) mostly only play with people who're already of that opinion nowadays, whereas they used to have a lot more discursive power.
We actually have the nationalist-Zionists in Israel and their pro-Zionist supporters to thank for the collapse of that discourse into its' current non-credible state.
 
frogwoman said:
It's not only that though. There is a massive campaign aimed at getting Jewish peoples support of Israel, through tours, religious study programmes, free holidays paid for by agencies to come and see you "heritage" etc, and in synagogues, etc. Israel would be crazy to attack the JFJFP ship because if that happened it would break, at least in Europe, Jewish people's already quite tenuous support of Israel. Parents would be less willing to send their kids on religious tours of Israel or on Israeli summer youth camps and the like. There would be massive pressure on Jewish organisations to come out with a statement condemning the attack and other aspects of Israel's behaviour, and at the moment people like JFJFP usually tend to be quite alienated from organised Judaism, for obvious reasons.
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I had a couple of people pushing that shit at me recently. My reply?
"If I want to support Jews or investigate Jewish history and heritage, I can do more meaningful stuff in Europe than in Israel".
They didn't like my rant about "plastic Jews from the FSU whose claim to Jewishness is that their great-grandfather once bumped into a Yid outside a synagogue" either. :(
 
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