Spion
I hear ya
in general, yes, but with some huge exceptions. There are jews of all classes in Israel. There are jews of some poor to middling strata in some ME states. There are jews of middling to v wealthy in W Europe. Dunno about E Europe
Israeli forces storm Gaza aid ship, and beat people on board. Fatalities reported.
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
dylans
overlord of all acorns
Kidnapped by Israel forsaken by Britain.
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/06/06/kidnapped-israel-forsaken-britain
http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/06/06/kidnapped-israel-forsaken-britain
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
They "tend" to be among the poorest people in society. However, a lot of them aren't counted in the statistics as being Jews as they don't go to synagogue and don't know anything about the religion, a hangover from the suppression and intrduction of anti-semitic policies in the Soviet Union.
There are some very rich Jews in Eastern Europe and unfortunately they are overrepresented among scummy oligarchs and the like, but in general they are certainly not rolling in it. Especially not what I saw in Moldova.
Fair enough. But I wonder if I put it like this:
Israeli Jewish workers will be broken from the Israeli state when they are treated as badly as Israeli arab workers.
In my thinking it's got to get worse before it gets better.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
And re: Western Europe - there are a lot of, mostly Algerian Jews in areas of inner city paris largely dominated by social housing estates who are certainly not rich. The same goes for parts of Manchester. it's a mistake to say that all jews here are middle class or very wealthy.
in London the hasidic jewish community has one of the highest rates of unemployment of all the groups living there. The image of the middle class north london or suburban jew is certainly partially true but it is not the whole story.
in London the hasidic jewish community has one of the highest rates of unemployment of all the groups living there. The image of the middle class north london or suburban jew is certainly partially true but it is not the whole story.
Spion
I hear ya
The Israeli w/c is well organised and militant. The only problem is they mostly hate arabs and their TU federation is institutionally racist.
My feelings are that the Israeli w/c will have to begin to 'lose' in the IP conflict before they begin to break en masse from the dominant ideology, and even then there will need to be a strong political pole of attraction that unites arab and jew by class, in so doing reassuring jewish workers
dennisr
the acceptable face
Yep, good points - even if the 'lose' scenario is an unlikely one at the moment - the importance of an alternative pole (an alternative to the right wing especially) is also key. At the moment the Histadrut mis-leadership holds back those movements - there are a series of disputes at present where part of the battle has been to replace Histadrut 'leaders'. In 2007 we saw a huge wave of disputes - disputes that also bought together Jewish and Arab workers as rarely before and saw - seperately - significent clashes between students and police. That was the result of a massive privatisation programme by the then government. That neo-liberal programme is still going on (and has resulted in one third of children and one quarter of the population living beneath the poverty line) and in this are the seeds of such a break as well. If, at the same time, there is another wave of struggle from the palestinian masses - who knows how the two will interact. The direction that goes in would depend, I guess, on the role (or lack of it...) of any progressive alternatives on offer.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
No. They don't.
That's because most of what the anti-Israel demos are about is people, whether they're Jews, Muslims, Christians or secularists, expressing their disapproval of the actions of the state of Israel.
There's always a small amount of anti-Semitism at such demos, from a minority of idiots. That categorically doesn't make anti-Semitism what such demos are (to use your words) "all about".
It really isn't, you know.
Perhaps you'd do well to take your own advice?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
They always have and always will. We used to see the NF etc turn up at protests at the Israeli embassy back in the 1970s and 80s. The anti-Semites are always there, whenever there's a vehicle for them to spout off their bollocks about.
Spion
I hear ya
ace grammar
it calls for palestine to be free, not palestinians, and for palaestine to extend from the river jordan to the meditarranean, ie where israel is now
given that it was being chanted by the same group chanted death to israel at one point (and it was far mopre than just a handful, but probably the largest bloc on the march) then id guess they knew exactly what they meant
that didnt stop the trot left and assorted peaceniks who got caught up with them singing along though
That's very interesting. It paints a pretty bleak picture.
It's not entirely clear from your post but was it your impression that the largest bloc on the march were chanting death to Israel?
at one pont, although in fairness not all of them and it didnt last as long as the rest
i really did, they were the same group who chanted scum and shame on you at the squaddies, and they were sadly more than a handful of antisemitic nutters, they were organised and knews exactly what they were doing
(there was also more than one reference to Hamas although i cant remember the exact chant)
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Aye sounds like it ... probably the same sort of people who marched through that town where all the soldiers' bodies get brought ...
I don't think they were the largest bloc on the demo tho - i heard a number of people singing that chant who weren't anything to do with them tho
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
could have been a bit of both - lol "the really big one not the big one"
I remember them ...Aye sounds like it ... probably the same sort of people who marched through that town where all the soldiers' bodies get brought ...
I don't think they were the largest bloc on the demo tho - i heard a number of people singing that chant who weren't anything to do with them tho
it was horrible and much worse than anything ive seen before, i really didnt want to be there - and even given all that the soft bastards still managed to bottle out of trashing marks & sparks
, fail all roundthe storming of the embassy however was effectively stopped by the STWC putting the stage in front of the embassy gates, which no doubt saved the met the hassle of prtecting the embassy
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
it was horrible and much worse than anything ive seen before, i really didnt want to be there - and even given all that the soft bastards still managed to bottle out of trashing marks & sparks
the storming of the embassy however was effectively stopped by the STWC putting the stage in front of the embassy gates, which no doubt saved the met the hassle of prtecting the embassy
facepalms all round then ...
discokermit
Well-Known Member
nobody is going to storm the embassy. what do you think you would get as soon as you got in?
global fame
Nor I, and we were at the front and the back of the demo at different times.
The group cvhanting 'from the river to the sea' were the group of young Muslim women as far as I saw.
discokermit
Well-Known Member
and a bullet in the head.
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