Israel and hezbollah after the exploding pagers

[Pickman's model]

Well these are soundbites, aren't they. Not stated Israeli policy. The kind of nonsense you say to someone who's just given you a load of bombs and guns, or to drum-up overseas support from the kind of folk who will go away and post in the comments section of The Telegraph.

Nobody seriously thinks that Israel has attacked Gaza and the West Bank to defend western values, any more than they believe Putin's latest adventure is about the denazification of Ukraine.

No one except the president of Israel it seems

 

[Spymaster]

No one except the president of Israel it seems

He doesn’t believe it either.

 

[Pickman's model]

He doesn’t believe it either.

How did he convey this to you?

 

[Spymaster]

How did he convey this to you?

The same way Putin conveyed that he's talking bollocks too.

 

[Gramsci]

I'm not saying these kinds of views that president and Netanyahu say are unique to Israel.

It's the kind of rhetoric that's been around during war on terror in general.

 

[Spymaster]

I'm not saying these kinds of views that president and Netanyahu say are unique to Israel.

It's the kind of rhetoric that's been around during war on terror in general.

Of course it has. It's the kind of rhetoric that's likely been around since wars began.

 

[Knotted]

Just on the pager attacks and the question of discrimination...

This question is a legal question of whether the attacks could distinguish between combatants and civilians not whether the attacks were targeted or whether the attacks were random.

To give an example Hamas rocket attacks are not guided and therefore cannot distinguish between combatants and civilians. The question of whether they have intended targets is moot. Similarly with Israeli flechettes (look them up if you feel so inclined, they're pretty grim) which were used in 2008/9.

So I suppose there is a question of to what extent an attack can effectively discriminate between civilians and combatants. You can probably take either side on this one. I'm fairly convinced these pager bombs couldn't in any meaningful respect. Collectively they're like a series of car bombs in my mind - fairly standard terrorist attacks.

Does any of the above matter much? No not really. I won't be arguing about it and I'm disappointed by the navel gazing it has inspired. Southern Lebanon is about to be laid waste to. Gaza has been destroyed and is now uninhabitable, it's population decimated. There may be a broader war bringing in America and Iran. How some of you find the energy to quibble about this particular matter is beyond me.

 

[Gramsci]

I'm not quibbling.

This started because I , instead of just spouting off, looked up the legal stuff on this particular case. Which is relevant to this thread.

And was criticised for doing so.

If one looks at the Gaza thread it will be seen I've posted a lot about the laying to waste of Gaza.

Which I notice some posters going on here about the pager attack absented themselves from.

As the main Gaza thread has been considered by some as so appalling.

Not for "decent" people was one remark

Quibbling about international law isn't irrelevant. It's one of few ways those who support Palestinian rights have of taking critical stance towards Israel.

 

[Knotted]

Yes but I don't think the indiscriminate (or not) nature of the attack is going to be resolved on here. In my mind it's in the category of "probable Israeli war crime" along with many others preceding it and inevitably following it.

And yes it's the both-siders who are in quibble mode not you Gramsci. It happened before with the Al Ahli hospital bombing.

 

[Spymaster]

If one looks at the Gaza thread it will be seen I've posted a lot about the laying to waste of Gaza.

Which I notice some posters going on here about the pager attack absented themselves from.

Personally, I've stuck that thread back on ignore. It's just the usual left wing extremism that occasionally flirts heavily with anti-Semitism.

This one was set-up to discuss this specific action, which has kept it relatively sane.

 

[The39thStep]

How did he convey this to you?

An auto-outreach cold email . They send thousands of these out a year.

 

[Spymaster]

An auto-outreach cold email . They send thousands of these out a year.

Daily!

As an aside; I spent half an hour arguing with a marketing bot today, trying to confuse it.

They're getting really good, and even do indignance:

I completely understand your concerns and assure you that the final reports will be thoroughly researched and written with a focus on quality and originality

Then this when I suggested she wasn’t real:

But I want to know about this: How did you say I wrote these answers using an AI-generated tool? Could you provide any proof to make sure? I think you do not need to underestimate anyone, okay? It would be better if you could first visit my profile and get to know me.

Obviously, the link goes to an AI generated profile, but it's a massive heads-up.

It's got to the stage where even people who know what to look for, can't tell immediately if it's a bot.

Now I just ask for a phone call.

 

[dylanredefined]

I did think whether it's a high value target or a lower one under international law proportionality comes into play.

That is what proportionality means. Blowing up an orphanage to get one gunman bad.
Killing an army head quarters at the cost of one orphanage possibly acceptable.

 

[dylanredefined]

I'm reminded of what gandhi apparently said when asked when asked what he thought of western civilization

He also thought the jews should be happily offer themselves to the butchers knife.

 

[Pickman's model]

He also thought the jews should be happily offer themselves to the butchers knife.

He said lots of shit. He recruited for the British army. But what was brought to mind was what he is supposed to have said when asked about western civilization. Great whataboutery effort tho.