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Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

Edie said:
Honestly mate I’m not knowledgeable enough to articulate. But there are plenty of frontier spirit, Republican, Trump supporting working class people in America as you know. And they’re not daft, they just see the world differently to the Democratic liberalism. Private property is a big deal in the States. Like I said I’m no expert but what’s going on doesn’t seem easily explainable by class politics to me.
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There are also a lot of WC Tory voters here in the UK. Similarly home ownership/property/business is a big deal. For me it is about class and in this context class/capital 'aspirations'. That anyone's value/intellect is measured by their perceived success/wealth is a continuation of this thinking.
 
Rutita1 said:
There are also a lot of WC Tory voters here in the UK. Similarly home ownership/property/business is a big deal. For me it is about class and in this context class/capital 'aspirations'.
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Yes but class doesn’t explain it does it. It’s actually a really poor predictor of political views.
 
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Edie said:
Yes but class doesn’t explain it does it. It’s actually a really poor predictor of political views.
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I have just explained it. :D Many WC people are 'aspirational' & want the status symbols of the middle & upper classes. You asked about ideology. The ideology is capitalism. They've bought into the idea that a person's worth or intellect can be measured by wealth/success/power etc.
 
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two sheds said:
When I was in the Netherlands someone suggested that class is seen as a measure of worth in England, money in America and education in the Netherlands.
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well if that’s true they’re teaching people the wrong history cos they still have a massive problem with racism
 
Rutita1 said:
I have just explained it. :D Many WC people are 'aspirational' & want the status symbols of the middle & upper classes. You asked about ideology. The ideology is capitalism. They've bought into the idea that a person's worth or intellect can be measured by wealth/success/power etc.
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And objects
 
Edie said:
Yes but class doesn’t explain it does it. It’s actually a really poor predictor of political views.
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I don't think it's really poor. If you look at the places with tory or labour mps, there is a class correlation there. It's not foolproof, that's for sure.

The US is an interesting case in that some of the poorest parts of it are now red (as in Republican). That's complicated by a bunch of things, though. In the South, racist white people switched from the Democrats back in the 60s cos of the end of segregation.
 
Edie said:
Yes but class doesn’t explain it does it. It’s actually a really poor predictor of political views.
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You’re making the assumption that there actually is a party aligned with class interests in the States (since that is where we are talking about). There isn’t. Republicans and Democrats are both heavily aligned with the interests of the rich — a politics of selfish capitalist greed and consumption is the heart of the “American Dream”, that both parties ascribe to wholeheartedly. In the absence of a party aiming to promote the interests of those furthest from the levers of capital, other parts of social identity become salient when making political choices.

With that in mind, I would say that class predicts US political views quite neatly. It’s not like the voting pattern is scattered randomly.
 
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littlebabyjesus said:
The US is an interesting case in that some of the poorest parts of it are now red (as in Republican). That's complicated by a bunch of things, though. In the South, racist white people switched from the Democrats back in the 60s cos of the end of segregation.
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It's complex of course but this is an often-given explanation that doesn't really stand up. Nationally the democrats had supported things like the Civil Rights Act etc, and were identified with anti-racism (at least on the legal political level) as far back as the early 60s but were still winning state legislatures in the south right through to the 1990s and the 2000s. The whole of the south could only really be described as properly Republican in the post 2010 era.

A host of other changes took place in that time, not least the 'rise of the south' economically as industries and economic activity grew southern cities hugely.
 
Rutita1 said:
There are also a lot of WC Tory voters here in the UK. Similarly home ownership/property/business is a big deal. For me it is about class and in this context class/capital 'aspirations'. That anyone's value/intellect is measured by their perceived success/wealth is a continuation of this thinking.
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It always rubs me up the wrong way when they say things like "Alan Sugar is worth £x million".
 
SheilaNaGig said:
I’ve been off here for few days so I’m not up to date with this thread, so excuse me for bursting in.

Just seen this, and I don’t see that it’s been posted here yet.

www.newsweek.com

Armed Black Militia Challenges White Nationalists at Stone Mountain Park

The militia called for the removal of Georgia's Confederate monument at Stone Mountain Park Saturday.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com




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The purported leader or convener of that is someone with seriously dodgy views unfortunately, I just learned. A man who goes by Grand Master Jay and has said hitler was just trying to defend Germany from the fake Israelites etc. :(
 
co-op said:
It's complex of course but this is an often-given explanation that doesn't really stand up. Nationally the democrats had supported things like the Civil Rights Act etc, and were identified with anti-racism (at least on the legal political level) as far back as the early 60s but were still winning state legislatures in the south right through to the 1990s and the 2000s. The whole of the south could only really be described as properly Republican in the post 2010 era.

A host of other changes took place in that time, not least the 'rise of the south' economically as industries and economic activity grew southern cities hugely.
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You're right that it's complex, and there was the odd situation where Democrats won at state level, but the states invariably voted for a Republican president. The economic growth areas are now what could tip the likes of Texas or Georgia back to the Democrats. But the Democrats had been central to the white supremacist power stitch-up pre-60s in the South, and they did lose support from racists over their support for civil rights.
 
Rutita1 said:
I have just explained it. :D Many WC people are 'aspirational' & want the status symbols of the middle & upper classes.
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The WC should know their place and forget about any fanciful ideals or aspirations to improve their lot in life.
 
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