Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

[krtek a houby]

Our wimp mayor has forbidden the cops to use teargas. Just another example of his wimpishness.

Cunt.

 

[NoXion]

Not necessarily. Even the most dangerous and obnoxious politicians can be agreed with on certain issues by reasonble opponents.

This is exactly what makes centrists so dangerous. They have no principles and will side with fascists if they think it's "reasonable".

To reflexively oppose everything the Trump side says is not thinking logically. I's reacting ideologically.

Treating "thinking logically" as if that isn't also taking an ideological position is nonsense. Logic is dependent on its premises, it's not something that is inherently correct. In other words, an argument or position can be logically air-tight but still be wrong due to being based on mistaken premises.

I genuinely think the political leadership of my city, county and state were and are wimpy and incompetent in dealing with the violence. They knuckled under to mob/gang rule. This negligence resulted in pointless destruction and made the economic comeback of downtown much more difficult. All that translates into far higher unemployment than would have otherwise been the case.

The local leadership were trying to de-escalate, while the federal government was trying to inflame the situation further. Trump is an authoritarian looking for excuses to clamp down. Have you already forgotten the snatch squads going around in unmarked vehicles and dragging off random people?

 

[Orang Utan]

The police are far more dangerous and a threat to the public than a bunch of vegans throwing placards, TomUS

 

[Streathamite]

Not necessarily. Even the most dangerous and obnoxious politicians can be agreed with on certain issues by reasonble opponents. To reflexively oppose everything the Trump side says is not thinking logically. I's reacting ideologically. I genuinely think the political leadership of my city, county and state were and are wimpy and incompetent in dealing with the violence. They knuckled under to mob/gang rule. This negligence resulted in pointless destruction and made the economic comeback of downtown much more difficult. All that translates into far higher unemployment than would have otherwise been the case.

Thank you for proving, once and for all, what i have long suspected; scratch the surface of a liberal centrist, and an authoritarian conservative is always lurking underneath.
When the chips are down, their default position is to side with the establishment against the oppressed

 

[Flavour]

Our wimp mayor has forbidden the cops to use teargas. Just another example of his wimpishness.

+ wimpy mayors
- tear gas sprayers

wanker

 

[TomUS]

Thank you for proving, once and for all, what i have long suspected; scratch the surface of a liberal centrist, and an authoritarian conservative is always lurking underneath.
When the chips are down, their default position is to side with the establishment against the oppressed

Yes, rioters are always the oppressed.

 

[TomUS]

The police are far more dangerous and a threat to the public than a bunch of vegans throwing placards, TomUS

I have to disagree in this case. Those vegans throw Molotov cocktails, not placards.

 

[Orang Utan]

I have to disagree in this case. Those vegans throw Molotov cocktails, not placards.

And the police shoot them with ‘non-lethal’ rounds, teargas, pepper spray, and hit them with batons, fists and boots. I’d also be using whatever came to hand to fight back. You’re on the wrong side, Tom

 

[TomUS]

And the police shoot them with ‘non-lethal’ rounds, teargas, pepper spray, and hit them with batons, fists and boots. I’d also be using whatever came to hand to fight back. You’re on the wrong side, Tom

By "fight back" you are implying the rioters are innocent victims. It's the rioters that have been on the attack.

 

[Streathamite]

Yes, rioters are always the oppressed.

In my experience - and we have had plenty of riots in the UK, in my lifetime - some form of state-driven oppression is almost always a major causal factor, yes.

Typical centrist, by trying to walk the middle line you revert by default to the side of the Elite and the State every single time, so much so that you end up faithfully and obediently parroting their narrative.

This is not simply a matter of hooligans and troublemakers, no matter how much you seek to paint it as that.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

BTW, while technically the mayor did ban the use of tear gas, what has actually happened is that the PPD in concert with the feds have continued to use vast quantities of chemical agents acting together.

 

[NoXion]

By "fight back" you are implying the rioters are innocent victims. It's the rioters that have been on the attack.

Do you or do you not accept that institutional racism is a deep-seated problem in the United States? How do you think institutions like the police might react to peaceful demonstrations against that? Poorly, you might think? Why do you not even consider the possibility that heavy-handed policing is a triggering factor in the rioting?

 

[Orang Utan]

By "fight back" you are implying the rioters are innocent victims. It's the rioters that have been on the attack.

In response to hundreds of years of repression and a corrupt and violent occupying force you call the police. They are merely exercising their constitutional rights, or does this only apply to right wing militias?

 

[TomUS]

Do you or do you not accept that institutional racism is a deep-seated problem in the United States? How do you think institutions like the police might react to peaceful demonstrations against that? Poorly, you might think? Why do you not even consider the possibility that heavy-handed policing is a triggering factor in the rioting?

Institutional racism is indeed a deep seated problem in the US. From what I have observed in my city, the police don't generally brutalize peaceful demonstrators. Heavy handed policing is a contributing factor, but I have watched for years as rioters go on the attack without any heavy handed policing triggering it.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Comments on the new taser shields being deployed by cops in Memphis went almost immediately from oh my that's terrible! to yas boi now how we going to fuck these dicks up hmm? in approximately ten seconds. Now it's just a long list of suggestions on what to spray, throw, thrust or fire at cops with these things - truly heart warming

That's some seriously Judge Dredd looking shit.

 

[TomUS]

In response to hundreds of years of repression and a corrupt and violent occupying force you call the police. They are merely exercising their constitutional rights, or does this only apply to right wing militias?

Rioting is not a constitutional right no matter who does it.

 

[Orang Utan]

Rioting is not a constitutional right no matter who does it.

How is throwing petrol bombs worse than using assault rifles?

 

[Ax^]

Rioting is not a constitutional right no matter who does it.

so why do your have the right to bear arms in your constitution

is it only white people with guns who get to express their opinions?

 

[TomUS]

How is throwing petrol bombs worse than using assault rifles?

I didn't say it was.

 

[Ax^]

TomUS what is your opinion of a proud boy protest/march by other militia's

 

[TomUS]

so why do your have the right to bear arms in your constitution

is it only white people with guns who get to express their opinions?

I disagree with how that part of the constitution has been interpreted. The "well regulated militia" part has been ignored. I'd rather nobody express their opinions with guns.

 

[Ax^]

your disapproval of the militia is less common

odd that

 

[TomUS]

TomUS what is your opinion of a proud boy protest/march by other militia's

I think I've said I can't stand the prowd boys, patriot prayer and other right wing gangs and I wish they'd stay away.

 

[Ax^]

so no 300 hard line of patriots

 

[TomUS]

so no 300 hard line of patriots

Sorry, I don't know what that means.

 

[krtek a houby]

By "fight back" you are implying the rioters are innocent victims. It's the rioters that have been on the attack.

You're on the wrong side. History will not look kindly upon the scum who brutalised the people.

 

[Streathamite]

BTW, while technically the mayor did ban the use of tear gas, what has actually happened is that the PPD have continued to use vast quantities of chemical agents that somehow they claim are not actually tear gas despite acting in exactly the same way.

don't s'pose you know what those chemical agents are? Just curious

 

[FridgeMagnet]

don't s'pose you know what those chemical agents are? Just curious

I'm trying to find the exact details but it was a few weeks ago when there was a big thing about "well it's not actually tear gas" - apparently Wheeler specifically banned CS gas. (He actually got gassed himself when he went down to a protest.)

It also may not be the PPB specifically using the gas, but the feds, in concert with the PPB. For instance here's an occasion in Newsweek:

Portland Protesters Tear-Gassed 8 Days After Mayor Orders No Tear Gas Use

Local officials said federal law enforcement, not police, fired the gas at protesters gathered outside a building of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

www.newsweek.com

and it's not at all hard to find videos of it happening e.g.



I will edit my original post anyway just to be precise.

Apparently the governor of Oregon has declared a state of emergency for this weekend's protests anyway which will allow the use of tear gas so eh.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Not necessarily. Even the most dangerous and obnoxious politicians can be agreed with on certain issues by reasonble opponents. To reflexively oppose everything the Trump side says is not thinking logically. I's reacting ideologically. I genuinely think the political leadership of my city, county and state were and are wimpy and incompetent in dealing with the violence. They knuckled under to mob/gang rule. This negligence resulted in pointless destruction and made the economic comeback of downtown much more difficult. All that translates into far higher unemployment than would have otherwise been the case.

This is pretty fucking fascinating, proof in real time of 'scratch a liberal'

 

[yield]

This is pretty fucking fascinating, proof in real time of 'scratch a liberal'

Yes. People protesting police brutality or protecting their neighbourhoods from far-right militia are "mob/gang rule".

Old Liberals. https://archive.org/stream/makingofenglishw01thom/makingofenglishw01thom_djvu.txt

Such moods are always to be found in periods of revolutionary excitement. But if the myth of Jacobin “totalitarianism” is applied to the English context, then it is necessary to rebut it with the simplest truths. Thomas Paine and his English followers did not preach the extermination of their opponents, but they did preach against Tyburn and the sanguinary penal code.

The English Jacobins argued for internationalism, for arbitration in place of war, for the toleration of Dissenters, Catholics and free-thinkers, for the discernment of human virtue in “heathen, Turk or Jew”. They sought, by education and agitation, to transform “the mob” (in Paine’s words) from “followers of the camp’’'' to followers of “the standard of liberty”.