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Is America burning? (Black Lives Matter protests, civil unrest and riots 2020)

Portland defends itself against Trump's delusions.

At a Monday news conference, Trump claimed that protests in Portland have been so damaging that "the entire city is ablaze all the time."

"WE ARE NOT ABLAZE IN PORTLAND," Lt. Rich Chatman, a spokesman for Portland Fire & Rescue, said in a text message to CNN on Monday night. "There is a very isolated pocket of demonstrations that have involved fire, none of which has been substantial enough to need more than 1 fire engine."
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And they're off again.

A black man died after being shot more than 20 times in the back by police during an alleged bicycle violation stop, his family’s lawyer has said. Dijon Kizzee, 29, was fatally gunned down by Los Angeles County officers on Monday afternoon while riding his bicycle in south LA. His death has sparked a fresh wave of peaceful anti-racism protests in the city.
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metro.co.uk

Black cyclist, 29, killed after police 'shot him more than 20 times in the back'

Dijon Kizzee was fatally gunned down by LA County Sheriff Department officers after being stopped for an alleged bicycle violation.
metro.co.uk metro.co.uk
 
Streathamite said:
Oh good grief, I must have said it, a thousand times. For socialism, and workers/mass solidarity to that end. For class struggle. That means standing against the bosses and against their exploitation, not exclaiming our pathetic gratitude when they deign to employ us.
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OK. Thanks. Socialism has several definitions. Would private property be allowed? Would all businesses be owned by the state or by the workers they employ? Would there be some type of market economy where prices and wages are determined by supply and demand or would there be central economic planning where the state determines what products and services are provided and what prices and wages would be? To avoid a lengthy discussion and derailing the thread, is there a country that has existed or currently exists that is close to the type of socialism you advocate?
 
TomUS said:
OK. Thanks. Socialism has several definitions. Would private property be allowed? Would all businesses be owned by the state or by the workers they employ? Would there be some type of market economy where prices and wages are determined by supply and demand or would there be central economic planning where the state determines what products and services are provided and what prices and wages would be? To avoid a lengthy discussion and derailing the thread, is there a country that has existed or currently exists that is close to the type of socialism you advocate?
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By pp do you mean the means of production? yes to most of your questions and why do you fear discussion to the last
 
TomUS said:
Socialism has several definitions.

1/Would private property be allowed?

2/Would all businesses be owned by the state or by the workers they employ?

3/Would there be some type of market economy where prices and wages are determined by supply and demand or

4/...would there be central economic planning where the state determines what products and services are provided and what prices and wages would be?

5/To avoid a lengthy discussion and derailing the thread, is there a country that has existed or currently exists that is close to the type of socialism you advocate?
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Whilst I wouldn't call myself a socialist, and my views would probably fall towards the more extreme end of the left spectrum, I'll answer for myself at least....

1/ No. Not on a large scale. But of course people would "own stuff". Just not capital in any significant form.

2/ Self-managed by the workers.

3/ No.

4/ No.

5/ No. There's been glimpses here and there but we're talking about a utopian destination here....
 
teqniq said:
Not good.

View attachment 228907

and from the tweet just underneath this we find more info about the law firm:

www.insider.com

Lawyers planning to defend the suspected Kenosha gunman run a right-wing organization that brings 'lawsuits to stop the lies and smears of the radical left'

Lawyers behind the #FightBack Foundation planning to defend Kyle Rittenhouse have also represented Covington Catholic teen Nick Sandmann and Carter Page.
www.insider.com www.insider.com
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Well, in the sense that the country is becoming increasingly polarised - and, let's face it, this law firm are clearly very much part of that - then yes, I'd say that America is probably quite a lot closer to civil war than at any time in the last 50 years or so.
 
chilango said:
Whilst I wouldn't call myself a socialist, and my views would probably fall towards the more extreme end of the left spectrum, I'll answer for myself at least....

1/ No. Not on a large scale. But of course people would "own stuff". Just not capital in any significant form.

2/ Self-managed by the workers.

3/ No.

4/ No.

5/ No. There's been glimpses here and there but we're talking about a utopian destination here....
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theres this recent thread to carry this on perhaps?
 
hmm am i missing or something but the whole self defense angle is that he was being attacked by a mob and thats what the view supposedly shows


but i'm i wrong or was the video not started after he had already killed one protester?
and people charged him down because of this?

and then he killed another and shot someone in the arm?
 
Pickman's model said:
By pp do you mean the means of production? yes to most of your questions and why do you fear discussion to the last
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PP means means of production. Also personal property such as a house, car ect. How about a business small or large? I don't know what you mean by fear discussion.
 
TomUS said:
OK. Thanks. Socialism has several definitions. Would private property be allowed? Would all businesses be owned by the state or by the workers they employ? Would there be some type of market economy where prices and wages are determined by supply and demand or would there be central economic planning where the state determines what products and services are provided and what prices and wages would be? To avoid a lengthy discussion and derailing the thread, is there a country that has existed or currently exists that is close to the type of socialism you advocate?
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tbh, this really does need a separate thread, ideally in the 'philosophy and history' section.
However, one thing that strikes me as unavoidable is that radical left ideas of all kinds - socialism, anarchism, radical environmentalism, BLM etc - are now on the rise, and are getting more traction in the USA than at any time since the late 70s.
The tide is turning.
 
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Conservative Americans seem obsessed by private property. Saw a sweet viral clip of a young boy skating in a driveway he would pass regularly and the owner kindly drew a track on the ground for him to make his day. And yet twerps on social media criticised the boy for not ‘respecting’ the owner’s property and his father for failing to teach him to.
 
even if they are obessed with private property was the kid with the rifle not trespassing seeming as he did not own any if the property he was supposedly protecting


:hmm:
 
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