Iran eyes badges for Jews and Christians

[moono]

tangentlama;

You made a 'joke in poor taste',


So you're either ineffectual at putting your point across, or indulging in a bit of Jew baiting

Joke ? I didn't make any joke. I was seriously advocating everybody displaying the 'yellow star' in support of persecuted minorities. Joke? You're the joke, you pompous windbag.

Don't invent 'tick boxes' and limit them to two. I'm neither an ineffectual stand-up comedian nor a 'Jew baiter'. There are zillions more possibilities as to what I might be but I wouldn't expect YOU to come even close to the reality.

Your preposterous outburst, conjured from your own misunderstanding, will serve only to further the cause of those sick individuals who murder and steal in the name of 'Zionism'. It's a sorry situation when intellectuals, such as yourself, indulge in a little 'tar-brushing' to defend a political term, Zionism, which is in disgrace.

I remind you , 'anti-Semitism' is a misnomer. If you mean 'anti-Jewish', say 'anti-Jewish' and show other Semites some respect.

I'm sorry that you've misunderstood and I'm even sorrier that you've failed to address that misunderstanding, prefering to blunder on with previously suppressed insult and bile. Nevertheless, that's your choice so up yours, tangentlama.

 

[tangentlama]

Please put back exactly what you wrote about sticking a yellow star on your guitar, so that others can read what you said. There was no original inference in what you wrote that everyone should wear a yellow star, which came as you tried to explain your 'lol' after I wrote that your 'joke' was offensive.

You said something along the lines of: "Me too. I'll stick a yellow star on my guitar'. Not only persisting with the wrongful misreport tha yellow stars are involved, but also definitely 'lol'-ing, i.e. laughing.

yet, you probably don't have the same 'sensitivity' to 'yellow star' as someone who has read Maus (have you?)

The article was not written for you, moono. It was written to frighten Jews, and to frighten Jews especially in Canada, where some Iranian exiles are very busy at work. We need to discover what their allegiences are, not frighten Canadian Jewry further.

Making light of the Yellow Stars has been the way of the crypto-fascist. A non-Heeb calling a heeb adult 'jewboy' is an insult. Sticking a star on your guitar is all about moono, and not about skillfully removing the psychological hold which a symbol or icon can have over people. You don't have that skill.

 

[moono]

Oh, so you think you might have made a mistake ? Good.

I'll do better than that, I'll put it here along with its context.

YOU said, in relation to the FALSE report from Iran pertaining to dress 'codes';

I think it'll eventually be very popular in the West, and a really good idea to preserve and build upon an very appropriate dress style for that region and cultural inheritance.

I'd buy it.

I said in reply, something along the lines of;

Lol. Me too. I might even stick a 'yellow star' on my guitar case

So, and I feel the need to interpret for you here, I was acknowledging the humour of your post, agreeing that I'd buy it too and going a step further by suggesting that fascism could be swamped by yellow stars. Let's call it the 'I'm Spartacus' movement.

So ? This makes me anti-Semitic ? ( misnomer )



Edit ; Tangentlama;

yet, you probably don't have the same 'sensitivity' to 'yellow star' as someone who has read Maus (have you?)

Fuck Maus. I don't have to constantly refer to dead people to know what I think.

 

[iROBOT]

Are there any Jews in Iran?? ??

Poor sods (if there are).

 

[tangentlama]

What you say makes you look antisemitic in the tradition crypto-fascist sense which also drove out 5 million Islamic Europeans and killed/murdered/starved 5+million more. I don't mean this in any other sense.

There are no fucking Yellow Stars in Iranian or Islamic Womens fashion. Fascism doesn't come into this, except to evoke individual and group memory, play upon the emotions of Jewish people in Canada. Canada is normally very level headed about these things, as they were with similar pressures from Iraqi exile groups in Canada regarding the introduction of Sharia courts for Muslims in Canada.

As things are, the entire fashion industry revolves around seasonal changes, accessories which might have some subtle semantics thrown in with the presentation, but the end result is a related, but dissimilar everyday piegonholing of people based on their dress (I wanted to say 'attire'). If the STATE were to enforce this it would be wrong, but fashion and industry are geared up to pigeonholing mood/group or class.

 

[tangentlama]

Are there any Jews in Iran?? ??

Poor sods (if there are).

Well, there is at least one Jew that I know of in the Iranian Parliament, as a respectfully elected minister. Of course there are Jews in Iran. There's no 'poor sod' about it. They would leave if they wanted to, but they're Iranian, but I imagine they get on well with their neighbours and are law-abiding citizens.

I'm British. I live in Britain. I also get on well with my neighbours and am a law-abiding citizen.
I'm also a poor sod because I have Tony Blair for a prime minister.

 

[nino_savatte]

Are there any Jews in Iran?? ??

Poor sods (if there are).

Not just Iran but Indonesia, China, India, Kazakhstan, South Africa, Mali, Cameroon...

 

[iROBOT]

My point (people) is, that with all the Anti-Israel stuff coming out of Iran could be a hairy place to live if one was of that faith….(I’ve googled and it is….please see below)

I think it's more relevant to discuss the history of Judaism as it is now in Iran then some fucking circular argument about a fabricated story.

Following the Islamization of the country has brought about strict control over Jewish educational institutions. Before the revolution, there were some 20 Jewish schools functioning throughout the country. In recent years, most of these have been closed down. In the remaining schools, Jewish principals have been replaced by Muslims. In Teheran, Jewish pupils still constitute a majority in three schools. The curriculum is Islamic, and Persian is forbidden as the language of instruction for Jewish studies. Special Hebrew lessons are conducted on Fridays by the Orthodox Otzar ha-Torah organization, which is responsible for Jewish religious education. Saturday is no longer officially recognized as the Jewish sabbath, and Jewish pupils are compelled to attend school on that day. There are three synagogues in Teheran, there has been no rabbi in Iran. Sincer 1994, the bet din has not functioned.4

The overthrow of the shah and the declaration of an Islamic state in 1979, Iran severed relations with Israel. The country has subsequently supported many of the Islamic terrorist organizations that target Jews and Israelis, particularly the Lebanon-based, Hezbollah. Nevertheless, Iran's Jewish community is the largest in the Middle East outside Israel.

On the eve of Passover in 1999, 13 Jews from Shiran and Isfahan in southern Iran were arrested and accused of spying for Israel and the United States. Those arrested include a rabbi, a ritual slaughterer and teachers. In September 2000, an Iranian appeals court upheld a decision to imprison ten of the thirteen Jews accused of spying for Israel. In the appeals court, ten of the accused were found guilty of cooperating with Israel and were given prison terms ranging from two to nine years. Three of the accused were found innocent in the first trial.5 In March 2001, one of the imprisoned Jews was released, a second was freed in January 2002, the remaining eight were set free in late October 2002. The last five apparently were released on furlough for an indefinite period, leaving them vulnerable to future arrest. Three others were reportedly pardoned by Iran's Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei.6

At least 13 Jews have been executed in Iran since the Islamic revolution 19 years ago, most of them for either religious reasons or their connection to Israel. For example, in May 1998, Jewish businessman Ruhollah Kakhodah-Zadeh was hanged in prison without a public charge or legal proceeding, apparently for assisting Jews to emigrate.7

Source: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/iranjews.html

 

[moono]

tangentlama;

There are no fucking Yellow Stars in Iranian or Islamic Womens fashion. Fascism doesn't come into this, except to evoke individual and group memory, play upon the emotions of Jewish people in Canada. Canada is normally very level headed about these things, as they were with similar pressures from Iraqi exile groups in Canada regarding the introduction of Sharia courts for Muslims in Canada.

Forget it man, you've lost the plot.
Apologies are cathartic and you really should try one sometime.

Spare the bandwidth and drop it now. You've made your 'point'.

 

[zoltan]

form todays Indie =- sorta related ish:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article549814.ece

 

[tangentlama]

The doubt cast upon Holocaust was no doubt given some degree of credibility by 'historians' such as the now jailed David Irving, and from Institutes and English-language websites allowed to operate from the USA such as the IHR. This doubt has entered the Islamic world, like Ford's Protocols infected them, post 1948 in their disregard for the founding of the Israeli state on the Shoah (Hebrew=Catastrophe)of another people (Arabic=Nabka=Catastrophe). It is a big source of contention bewteen the two peoples, and completely detracts always from not how many died, and stops us asking questions about the forces that annihilated European Muslims and Hebrews. Why have these forces risen again to decimate more yet more semitic people (Arabs). The Islamic world had their own view of Zionist Colonialism in the Middle East, but they've been fed some dire conspiracy theories which have undermined their cause, up until this point.

It's obviously upsetting to hear Iran repeat those Irving-esque doubts on the Holocaust, and maybe with time, and a realisation, the clerics, the president, and all Farsi-speakers in Iran will realise that it wasn't a lie or a fabrication, or an embellishment, and Roman Catholic Christianity not only stood by, but stood with the Fascists throughout the European Genoicides and Ethnic Cleansing of Semites in the form of Muslims and Jews from 1800s to 1950s. The focus is once again Islam, but no-one is left alive to remember what was happening in Europe to Muslims in the 18th/19th and early part of the 20th Century before the return to finish off the Ethnic Cleansing against the remaining semites, roma, and those considered impure. Like Torquemada, like Hitler, but Ahmadinjad, is like neither.

I think Iran needs to understand the harm that can come about by misunderstanding that the same annihilitating force that came for Semites in Europe, is now come after Semites on their home ground in middle east, and please, religion or Prophets are not behind this, but religion IS being used by Indudstrialists and Corporations and Profiteers, Real Estate Agents, and Criminal Racketeers to hide behind, as a 'moral justification'.

That article in the independent is very interesting, not in the least because one of the 20,000 Iranian Jews who won't leave Iran has this to say:

"Everyone thinks the Islamic republic is killing us, but this is wrong," Dr Morsathegh insists. "As a minority we have some problems, but they are not as bad as people outside the country think. We can live here, study here, work here."

It is early morning in Yusuf Abad, an old middle-class neighbourhood home to many of Tehran's Jewish families, and as the city stirs itself awake a low chanting pervades the mulberry-lined street. It is a weekday and the synagogue has attracted few worshippers. About 40 men, all in skull caps and the traditional tallit shawl, read from the Torah as the rabbi gently intones from a dais. These, or similar, words have been recited every morning in Iran since about 700BC.

Since the revolution, synagogue attendances have soared. Jews say this is in part because of the more religious atmosphere propagated by the Islamic republic and partly because minorities have drawn in upon themselves. "Before the revolution people were less religious and mixed more between faiths," a customer in a kosher butcher said. "Friendships with Muslims happen but they are more difficult. Things aren't how they used to be."

And yet, things aren't getting any worse, there is Jewish representation for those 20,000 in Parliament , and, G-d willing, things will become freer, once the misunderstandings and mistruths are cleared away. Things will get better, however, I can't see the Iranian state relaxing it's alchohol laws for a long time, given the health-statistics on alchohol damage from the West, and home-made beer and wine tastes best. The Shiraz grape comes from Iran, doesn't it? Perhaps the State ought to allow only non-Muslims to cultivate an historic crop for a specialist export market, breaking neither Islamic law, nor Jewish law, nor Iranian law, since the wine would be for sale, all to me I (heart) Shiraz and Schumacher!

 

[rachamim18]

iROBOT: Yes there is moderately sized Jewish community still in Iran. they even have a cheif rabbi paid for by the government. Periodically though they do make a life a little uncomfortable for them.

Tangent: Wrong about leaving "if they want to." Exit visas are not easy to come by for any Iranian and even more so for Iranian Jews.

As for Holocaust Denial in Iran, unlike the comment that iniated this thread, there are no Iranian leaders offering a different take. This is not only the case in Iran but throughout most of the Islamic World.






Panda: I have been unmasked!!! I lie about compact disc titles!!! GET A LIFE. Rather, I do find it amusing so keep chasing your tail. Maybe you an Savant, I mean Savatte might go doubles on it. Oh, and for the record, professor, it is an actual cd that came out before I came back to NY.

 

[laptop]

Not read the thread but I'm pretty sure this changes it:

--------------------------------------------------
Newspaper apologises for erroneous tale about Iran
--------------------------------------------------
A Canadian newspaper has apologised for publishing an erroneous story
that said Iran had passed a law requiring Jews and Christians to wear
badges identifying them as religious minorities.

Iran was debating a draft law that would discourage women from wearing
western clothing and encourage citizens to wear Islamic-style garments.

The story, quoting Iranian expatriates and published last Friday in the
National Post, a conservative national daily, stirred up an
international row, and the Iranian government on Wednesday summoned
Canada's ambassador to the foreign ministry in Tehran.

Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1783340,00.html - AP, The
Guardian

--------------------------------------

That'll be a propaganda exercise by expats then. I'd be guessing pro-Shah expats. Whether freelance or in co-ordination with Even Darker Forces - who can tell?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Not read the thread but I'm pretty sure this changes it:




That'll be a propaganda exercise by expats then. I'd be guessing pro-Shah expats. Whether freelance or in co-ordination with Even Darker Forces - who can tell?

Expat in question works for Benador Associates.

 

[laptop]

Expat in question works for Benador Associates.

* Searches thread *

Ah, yes. Beg pardon.

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't think that there's much of a question as to whether certain middle-eastern regimes are trying to use and promote anti-Israeli sentiment to detract from their own internal failings.

True, be it that it is a tad more complex

It does behoove us however to be very careful in judging what that actually means in practice,

It means in daily practice that among a certain segment of the populations not only anti Israel, but also more general anti Jewish sentiments flare up whenever they feel for it. This even counts for an amount of Muslims of MENA region descent who are born and have lived their entire life in Europe.
These emotionally loaded sentiments have not only to see with what you suggested. It is a combination of factors including the ongoing hypocricy of the West, especially the USA, in their policies regarding Israel and its policies. In this context it must be noticed that in Europe there is an awakening going on since a few years - and lately speeding up - for what "Israel" actually means for the Palestinians, their land, their lives. That doesn't go unnoticed in the MENA either, yet in my view that shall take a very long while before it drips down to the actual "street" level.

and to what degree reports here are being manipulated to fit into a "politically correct" view of Iran, one that can be used to justify military action.

I can't even call what the OP posted "manipulation". You must already be an utterly brainwashed blindfolded specimen of the human race to actually believe such an idiocy, hence "manipulation" is too kind a word to describe the mindset.

The comment "Israel must be wiped of the mapp" does not reflect truth, as you brought up in your post 7.
And a site like MEMRI has indeed no reason to come with a mutilated translation just to make Iran lovers happy. They would have jumped on it like sharks if they could have confirmed the "must be wiped of the mapp". And yes, I do know Farsi. This doesn't mean that I feel any interest for loosing my time on wading through what the contemporan Iranian puppet-in-charge has to say. (Although despite showing himself to be a raging lunatic most of the time, sometimes he is led to make a good move.)

salaam.

 

[Aldebaran]

Are there any Jews in Iran?? ??

Poor sods (if there are).

You sound as if you think to be very well informed while at the same time declaring to lack any knowledge.
Some Jews in Israel are far more "poor sods" then those living in the MENA. I know Jews who deeply regret they ever left their country of birth in exchange for Israeli citizenship.

salaam.

 

[rachamim18]

There are people with regrets in enevery city of every nation on this planet. so what? what does it prove? If you mean to compare the lot of Iranian Jews and Jews in Israel you will need to do a bit better than that. Can a Jew in Iran go on holiday to any nation they want? Can they even make a public stand about a governmnet policy? What about simply vote for non-mandated candidates? There is no comparison. If any Jews from Iran are in Israel are regretting anything, it is that they did not go to LA instead of Haifa, not that they left an Islamic theocracy that mandates second class citizenship for them and their offspring. Salaam.