Implications for the rest of us if Scotland votes yes

[likesfish]

When rbritan is 10x the size of iscotland is not going to be a currency union anyway.
How could it be?
All the decisions will go in rbritans favour along with everything else when you have less population than your neighbours capital your ability to be seen as an equal is limited

 

[Idris2002]

Sorry looked but not sure if already posted. Tommy Sheridan and Andrew Neil on Sunday Politics.

Spoiler

Great rabble-rousing stuff, but surely Tommy S. is permanently tainted now?

 

[killer b]

On what terms? This is Smug n Thug's big lie, that they'll get a currency union, EU membership, everything else, with no strings attached. That's clearly a nonsense. They can only get away with it be cause the No campaign can't admit they will do a deal, but clearly they WILL do a deal. On terms that's are really shit for the Scots (the Scottish people that is, the SNP will be happy to agree to no tax rises, deficits etc)

I've no idea what terms but as you correctly identify, a deal will be done.

I just find the idea of the rest of the UK negotiating like a spurned lover laughable. In the event of a yes vote, I'm sure there will be bullshit and bluster, but what will actually be negotiated will be to (what they see as) the best economic advantage of the country and (probably more importantly) the business interests that call the shots.

 

[Diamond]

I've no idea what terms but as you correctly identify, a deal will be done.

I just find the idea of the rest of the UK negotiating like a spurned lover laughable. In the event of a yes vote, I'm sure there will be bullshit and bluster, but what will actually be negotiated will be to (what they see as) the best economic advantage of the country and (probably more importantly) the business interests that call the shots.

Best economic advantage of which country?

The "yes" side seems to either ignore or be incapable of grasping this fundamental point - once Scotland is independent it will be an independent partner at the negotiations. (the clue's in the word independent, in case you didn't grasp that...)

Once you have two separate partners, not conjoined in any kind of formal joint venture, the dynamics radically change.

It's that simple.

 

[killer b]

I'm talking about the rest of the uk's negotiating position. I thought that was pretty obvious from the post.

 

[butchersapron]

Best economic advantage of which country?

The "yes" side seems to either ignore or be incapable of grasping this fundamental point - once Scotland is independent it will be an independent partner at the negotiations. (the clue's in the word independent, in case you didn't grasp that...)

Once you have two separate partners, not conjoined in any kind of formal joint venture, the dynamics radically change.

It's that simple.

Which country? Which members of the factions of capital in control of the state at that time (with those who look likely to take on the role later also co-opted into the process) you mean? The countries will get fuck all say.

 

[fogbat]

What's put the suggestion of repatriation into your head?

A squirrel.

 

[belboid]

I've no idea what terms but as you correctly identify, a deal will be done.

I just find the idea of the rest of the UK negotiating like a spurned lover laughable. In the event of a yes vote, I'm sure there will be bullshit and bluster, but what will actually be negotiated will be to (what they see as) the best economic advantage of the country and (probably more importantly) the business interests that call the shots.

You dont seem to think the terms matter from that. But clearly they do - if only to hammer home the SNP's dishonesty afterwards.

 

[killer b]

You dont seem to think the terms matter from that. But clearly they do - if only to hammer home the SNP's dishonesty afterwards.

Not quite sure where you got the idea that I don't think the terms matter.

 

[belboid]

Not quite sure where you got the idea that I don't think the terms matter.

From (what appears to be) your casual attitude to the question.

 

[killer b]

I didn't realise I was discussing the detail of a currency union agreement, only whether it would happen or not.

 

[newbie]

Which country? Which members of the factions of capital in control of the state at that time (with those who look likely to take on the role later also co-opted into the process) you mean? The countries will get fuck all say.

we know this, but neither capital nor politics are entirely monolithic. 62% of rUK reject currency union, according to the poll, so this has every possibility of becoming an election issue, starting Friday. The role of the Labour Party is crucial, because it, and it alone, has the capacity to form a government in both countries, no other party stands an earthly chance of doing so.

So politically, either Millibands lot unite with Cameron (or his successor) and reject currency union, or they maneuver towards endorsing it, and risk being seen as compromising the national interest in pursuit of power in a foreign country.

If the rUK electorate believes that rUKLab is prepared to make accommodations with iScotLab which are not in the perceived interests of the rUK electorate, they'll be rejected at the ballot next May.

We won't find out yet whether capital, beit rUK, Euro or world capital (I'd guess Scottish capital is all but irrelevant) favours £ based monetary union, opposes it or is simply seeking an opportunity to Buffet the £.

 

[butchersapron]

we know this, but neither capital nor politics are entirely monolithic. 62% of rUK reject currency union, according to the poll, so this has every possibility of becoming an election issue, starting Friday. The role of the Labour Party is crucial, because it, and it alone, has the capacity to form a government in both countries, no other party stands an earthly chance of doing so.

So politically, either Millibands lot unite with Cameron (or his successor) and reject currency union, or they maneuver towards endorsing it, and risk being seen as compromising the national interest in pursuit of power in a foreign country.

If the rUK electorate believes that rUKLab is prepared to make accommodations with iScotLab which are not in the perceived interests of the rUK electorate, they'll be rejected at the ballot next May.

We won't find out yet whether capital, beit rUK, Euro or world capital (I'd guess Scottish capital is all but irrelevant) favours £ based monetary union, opposes it or is simply seeking an opportunity to Buffet the £.

Well, first thing is that we don't know just how strongly that 60% of welsh and english who say a currency union should be rejected feel about the issue - whether it would become as as you suggest a live election defining/winning/losing issue. I'm not convinced it would be at all. And labour voters are by far those least opposed to such a union. Polls from the last week don't have anything related to scotland even appearing on the list of voting factors.

 

[gosub]

we know this, but neither capital nor politics are entirely monolithic. 62% of rUK reject currency union, according to the poll, so this has every possibility of becoming an election issue, starting Friday. The role of the Labour Party is crucial, because it, and it alone, has the capacity to form a government in both countries, no other party stands an earthly chance of doing so.

So politically, either Millibands lot unite with Cameron (or his successor) and reject currency union, or they maneuver towards endorsing it, and risk being seen as compromising the national interest in pursuit of power in a foreign country.

If the rUK electorate believes that rUKLab is prepared to make accommodations with iScotLab which are not in the perceived interests of the rUK electorate, they'll be rejected at the ballot next May.

We won't find out yet whether capital, beit rUK, Euro or world capital (I'd guess Scottish capital is all but irrelevant) favours £ based monetary union, opposes it or is simply seeking an opportunity to Buffet the £.

Disagree, nothing really changed on ground since March, markets have sucked up gilts and derivative insurance was cheap til mid last month when they realised they should have hedged better.

A yes will shake the markets, badly (Scottish capital isn't irrelvant) but the tail wagging the dog would destroy London's credibility entirely.

 

[belboid]

I didn't realise I was discussing the detail of a currency union agreement, only whether it would happen or not.

the terms are kinda central, indeed even more important than, the mere fact of some kind of union tho.

 

[newbie]

true, but if there is a yes vote, the premise of this thread, iScotland is one potential real division between parties who appear to agree on almost everything else (except Europe, which bores most of us to tears).

 

[redsquirrel]

What are you talking about? The last week has seen an alliance between the three major parties regarding Scotland?

 

[killer b]

the terms are kinda central, indeed even more important than, the mere fact of some kind of union tho.

Yes. But I didn't post on the thread looking for a discussion on monetary union, just to point out the idea that the government of the rest of the UK would reject Scottish negotiations out of spite was nonsense.

 

[ska invita]

In Tommy Sheridan's video he mentions 100 years of oil off the west coast that hasn't been tapped because Heseltine banned it as it would get in the way of Trident
any truth in that?

 

[newbie]

What are you talking about? The last week has seen an alliance between the three major parties regarding Scotland?

and? they're campaigning in a vote scheduled for thursday. there's another election next May, where they will be addressing us all, not just the Scots.

 

[belboid]

Yes. But I didn't post on the thread looking for a discussion on monetary union,

I bloody am doing tho! Someone gotta take me up on it

 

[killer b]

Not tonight, Josephine.

 

[LiamO]

In Tommy Sheridan's video he mentions 100 years of oil off the west coast that hasn't been tapped because Heseltine banned it as it would get in the way of Trident
any truth in that?

yes. It is well documented.

 

[Dillinger4]

In Tommy Sheridan's video he mentions 100 years of oil off the west coast that hasn't been tapped because Heseltine banned it as it would get in the way of Trident
any truth in that?

The former Defence Secretary, Michael Heseltine, has admitted blocking a potential oil boom off the West coast of Scotland in the 1980s.

The Sunday Post revealed last year that declassified documents appeared to show the Ministry of Defence forced oil firms to withdraw applications to drill for oil in the Firth of Clyde, fearing exploration of the seabed would interfere with nuclear submarines travelling to and from Faslane.

Now Lord Heseltine, Defence Secretary at the time, has confirmed it.

Asked by The Sunday Post if it was the right decision he said: “I do remember that. The question is whether it was right for strategic or defence reasons.

“Briefed as I would be on Britain’s national security issues, the implication is that someone should’ve said: ‘Yes but the politics of this are unattractive so you should override the strategic defence interests of Britain for the sake of some poll in some local community council’.

http://www.sundaypost.com/news-view...l-boom-in-the-clyde-heseltine-admits-1.446273

 

[LiamO]

The YES campaign is easily the most exciting grassroots political campaign in Britain since the Poll Tax or the Miner's strike - and they were both, by definition, 'anti' campaigns and were hostile - sometimes in the extreme.

This one is nearly all positive - people empowering themselves/taking action/taking on the might of the media using social media etc) and might well have a happy ending. Roll on Friday morning.

 

[quiquaquo]

http://www.sundaypost.com/news-view...l-boom-in-the-clyde-heseltine-admits-1.446273

So the oil is still there and theoretically in an independent Scotland’s territorial waters. Why isn't this common knowledge or is just me who had no idea about this?

 

[ska invita]

So the oil is still there and theoretically in an independent Scotland’s territorial waters. Why isn't this common knowledge or is just me who had no idea about this?

its not common knowledge

 

[quiquaquo]

its not common knowledge

That's hardly surprising, would certainly push the Yes vote up a few percentage points if it was. Bastards.

 

[ska invita]

Tommy Sheridan is the first person Ive heard mention it - is it not otherwise a plank in the Yes campaign or did I miss a meeting?

 

[Andrew Hertford]

That's hardly surprising, would certainly push the Yes vote up a few percentage points if it was. Bastards.

Perhaps because the SNP wouldn't want to advertise the fact that an independent Scotland might be over dependent on burning more fossil fuels?