Hypothetical situation- help me settle an argument with my parents?

[stereoisomer]

The hypothetical situation is this:

University has a promising PhD student who has just started her course and seems to be doing well. Student discloses to supervisor she has mental health issues and is seeking treatment. Supervisor is very supportive as are all other university staff. Student writes down history of her
illness including illegal drug use up to the recent past. University somehow finds out about illegal drug use in the recent past and fires her from her PhD.

Does that scenario sound likely?

 

[stereoisomer]

I think my mum and dad are barking up the wrong worrying stick.

Btw I have stopped all stimulants including tea (and they're the only kind of drug I like)

 

[Lord Hugh]

Not likely, in my experience, but universities will differ. If it is not affecting your work or interactions with colleagues, then it shouldn't be an issue. Also, PhD students are often pretty "out-there" anyway and tend to be left to their own devices a lot.

But the deciding Qs: What is there to gain from writing down the history? What would be lost excluding the drug use? Would this be an official record, checkable in the near or late future by employers etc?

 

[prunus]

Is this in the uk? Because if so it would be vanishingly unlikely to occur as you
describe. It could just about happen if the PhD was perhaps in child development, and included eg lots of direct interaction with minors as a university partnership with a local school or something (ie if they can make it a stat protection issue), but under all normal circumstances I can't imagine it happening as you describe.

 

[stereoisomer]

Not likely, in my experience, but universities will differ. If it is not affecting your work or interactions with colleagues, then it shouldn't be an issue. Also, PhD students are often pretty "out-there" anyway and tend to be left to their own devices a lot.

But the deciding Qs: What is there to gain from writing down the history? What would be lost excluding the drug use? Would this be an official record, checkable in the near or late future by employers etc?

I wrote the thing for the purpose of showing to my new therapist.. also showed it to my parents. Mum freaked out because she thinks it might 'fall into the wrong hands'. I'm not going to post it anywhere public or anything. It's in a google spreadsheet which is linked to my uni email address. I think it's extremely unlikely that anyone is going to go snooping in my google drive- and even if they did, so what? disclosing past drug use isn't illegal!
The drugs bit is important because MH professionals tend to focus on it too much imo, wanted to show patterns were related to relationships not drug use, so it's there to prove a point really.

 

[stereoisomer]

Is this in the uk? Because if so it would be vanishingly unlikely to occur as you
describe. It could just about happen if the PhD was perhaps in child development, and included eg lots of direct interaction with minors as a university partnership with a local school or something (ie if they can make it a stat protection issue), but under all normal circumstances I can't imagine it happening as you describe.

My PhD is in Chemistry. Unfortunately I'm going to have to do this thing- being a STEM ambassador, which involves going into schools and talking about science. Requires a CRB check. I'm dreading it. Will have to disclose record. I'm hoping full disclosure of MH history will make whoever makes the decision view the 'offence' more sympathetically. (I put offence in inverted commas because that word pisses me off- implies someone was offended against.. when what I did I'm 99.9% sure harmed no-one)

I think if I was going to show it to that decision-making person I would make another version which stops in 2007...

 

[Athos]

I'd think twice about what I put in writing. Though it's unlikely that the university will do anything (unless the drug use endangered other students, colleagues or third parties), you never know when your records might be looked at in the future e.g. certain employers might require access, might fall to be disclosed in litigation etc.

 

[Athos]

My PhD is in Chemistry. Unfortunately I'm going to have to do this thing- being a STEM ambassador, which involves going into schools and talking about science. Requires a CRB check. I'm dreading it. Will have to disclose record. I'm hoping full disclosure of MH history will make whoever makes the decision view the 'offence' more sympathetically. (I put offence in inverted commas because that word pisses me off- implies someone was offended against.. when what I did I'm 99.9% sure harmed no-one)

I think if I was going to show it to that decision-making person I would make another version which stops in 2007...

You think it more likely that you get CRB clearance when you disclose ongoing MH issues and drugs than you would if you just disclosed drugs?

 

[TodayIsCaturday]

Do you have any actual convictions? If not you could always claim anything you've written is a work of fiction.

 

[Lord Hugh]

I wrote the thing for the purpose of showing to my new therapist.. also showed it to my parents. Mum freaked out because she thinks it might 'fall into the wrong hands'. I'm not going to post it anywhere public or anything. It's in a google spreadsheet which is linked to my uni email address. I think it's extremely unlikely that anyone is going to go snooping in my google drive- and even if they did, so what? disclosing past drug use isn't illegal!
The drugs bit is important because MH professionals tend to focus on it too much imo, wanted to show patterns were related to relationships not drug use, so it's there to prove a point really.

Oh! No way, seriously, your university doesn't care in the slightest about what's in your email unless something illegal happens and they have to search it. They have wayyyyy too much to do. Plus, email etc is generally private, so unless you gave it to someone, there's nothing they could do with it - "You stole my character bios for the novel I'm writing in my spare time? Why would you do that?"

 

[stereoisomer]

Right. I'm going to copy and paste this conversation into an email and send it to my mum, telling her she's a silly moo.

 

[stereoisomer]

You think it more likely that you get CRB clearance when you disclose ongoing MH issues and drugs than you would if you just disclosed drugs?

I don't know- don't massively care about being a STEM ambassador or not. But would be awkward if I was the only person in the cohort not doing it and I had to come up with some reason why.

 

[stereoisomer]

Do you have any actual convictions? If not you could always claim anything you've written is a work of fiction.

Yes.. but I'm not planning on ever applying for the kind of job where they check. Rather hoping that prohibition is on its way out and in 10 years this will be a non-issue. Like having a conviction for homosexuality on your record.

eta: I should probably stop worrying. I know a guy who has the same exact conviction as me, and he got a job working with disabled kids. Just disclosed everything, and they were cool about it.

 

[stuff_it]

It depends what you are doing/likely to do. I found that despite the fact that I can no longer do agency med sec work with my minor criminal record I can in fact get security clearance to work on site for x list companies, and only narrowly missed out on a job at one because someone who had done the same exact job for another company for ten years also applied. They even rang me back specifically to explain why I didn't get the job as I was such a strong candidate - this despite a shocking credit rating to go with my hinting-strongly-at-drug-use criminal record.

Chemistry I dunno. I'd not want to bait myself up by mentioning any past drug use for a chemistry degree, even if anyone doing it at PhD standard is more than capable of doing a Walter White and probably has been for some time.

 

[Mapped]

The hypothetical situation is this:

University has a promising PhD student who has just started her course and seems to be doing well. Student discloses to supervisor she has mental health issues and is seeking treatment. Supervisor is very supportive as are all other university staff. Student writes down history of her
illness including illegal drug use up to the recent past. University somehow finds out about illegal drug use in the recent past and fires her from her PhD.

Does that scenario sound likely?

Depends on the course, but that scenario sounds very improbable to me for an area that doesn't involve children or vulnerable people. Drug addiction is a health issue and should be treated accordingly.

I'm not an expert on the official policy, but when I was doing my MSc in an IT related field a few years ago my wife and I had a benzo addiction that sent me extremely loopy and sent her to the hospital when we tried to get off them. All this craziness happened about 2 months before my exams and I told my tutor about all the various pills and powders and why we used benzos. He signed me off the exams and arranged alternative assessment later that year when I was back to normal health. There was no discussion or comeback over legal or illegal drugs or any talk about being chucked off the course. He also let me know that this wasn't the first time he'd had a student in this situation.

However I also have a friend who was studying for a BEd who had to have some sort of tribunal at the Department of Education after he was caught with an eighth as a student. He had to convince them that it was a one off and he was suitable teaching material.

 

[stereoisomer]

Depends on the course, but that scenario sounds very improbable to me for an area that doesn't involve children or vulnerable people. Drug addiction is a health issue and should be treated accordingly.

I'm not an expert on the official policy, but when I was doing my MSc in an IT related field a few years ago my wife and I had a benzo addiction that sent me extremely loopy and sent her to the hospital when we tried to get off them. All this craziness happened about 2 months before my exams and I told my tutor about all the various pills and powders and why we used benzos. He signed me off the exams and arranged alternative assessment later that year when I was back to normal health. There was no discussion or comeback over legal or illegal drugs or any talk about being chucked off the course. He also let me know that this wasn't the first time he'd had a student in this situation.

However I also have a friend who was studying for a BEd who had to have some sort of tribunal at the Department of Education after he was caught with an eighth as a student. He had to convince them that it was a one off and he was suitable teaching material.

Yes exactly. I'm not on that kind of course and have no desire to be a teacher.

 

[Mapped]

Yes exactly. I'm not on that kind of course and have no desire to be a teacher.

Then you've (hypothetically) got nothing to worry about

 

[stereoisomer]

Then you've (hypothetically) got nothing to worry about

Yep. My mum's just being daft.

 

[Mapped]

Yep. My mum's just being daft.

They love to have a worry, my mum's exactly the same.

 

[stereoisomer]

They love to have a worry, my mum's exactly the same.

Tbf, she has every right to be worried about my mental health. I'm worried about it too! But she doesn't need to worry about this!

 

[Mapped]

Tbf, she has every right to be worried about my mental health. I'm worried about it too! But she doesn't need to worry about this!

I'm being overly flippant here as I don't know what your condition is and its well past beer o'clock where I am, but I work with academics and early career researchers for a living and a massive amount of them seem to have mental health issues. No offence, but sometimes it can seem like it comes with the territory

 

[stereoisomer]

I'm being overly flippant here as I don't know what your condition is and its well past beer o'clock where I am, but I work with academics and early career researchers for a living and a massive amount of them seem to have mental health issues. No offence, but sometimes it can seem like it comes with the territory

Haha true. My supervisor is being very supportive. Haven't told the rest of the group yet but probably will rather than waiting for them to notice. I have bipolar and I'm in hypomania at the moment.

 

[equationgirl]

Haha true. My supervisor is being very supportive. Haven't told the rest of the group yet but probably will rather than waiting for them to notice. I have bipolar and I'm in hypomania at the moment.

Like others have said, I wouldn't write it down anywhere anyone could get hold of it accidentally i.e. keep it off any shared network drive at the university.

 

[stereoisomer]

Like others have said, I wouldn't write it down anywhere anyone could get hold of it accidentally i.e. keep it off any shared network drive at the university.

It's not on the university shared drive, it's on google drive which is linked to my uni email address. Use it for convenience so can edit from anywhere etc. Don't see the need to set up a new google account just for this... no one is going to go snooping are they?

 

[Puddy_Tat]

I can't speak for the higher education world, but I used to handle CRB checks in another setting.

A few disjointed thoughts -

If in doubt, I'd advise against putting anything in writing. Who is this document for? My understanding of the disabilities bit of equalities law (and under such law, a long term health condition is considered a 'disability') is that while an employer (and I guess this would include an education establishment or a potential employer) needs to know you have a disability so that 'reasonable adjustments' can be made, and that might require discussion about the disability's effects and what they can do to help, but I am fairly sure you're under no obligation to disclose medical details to anyone other than medical practicioners.

Once you have disclosed something, it ought to be kept confidential, it may not be. I'm not a believer in expecting other people to keep my secrets for me.

I don't know enough about the HE sector to know whether there's a chance you could get slung off your course for disclosing past illegal activity. If (and I'm not quite sure what you're saying here) you are on the sort of course where you have at some point been asked to declare convictions, and you have failed to do so, you could be in trouble for that. While I'm sure you're not the first student to have indulged, my gut feeling is keep quiet about it either way.

As regards possible future DBS checks - I'm a bit out of touch here, but it's worth bearing in mind that (apart from people who have specifically been banned from working with children for you know what) it is not the DBS's purpose to say "X person is OK to have this job" or "X person should not be given this job". It is their function to provide information, and it is the (potential) employer's role to make a decision based on that information.

While it will vary (and some shit employers will decide just to ditch anyone who does have a record - although they shouldn't) most decent employers will consider each case on their merits, and may want to discuss whatever offence it was, take in to account how long ago it was, and to be persuaded that you're now a reformed chartacter and that sort of thing.

And (again I'm slightly confused by what you're saying here) I don't think that mental health problems in themselves form part of what an employer might find out through a DBS check.

Better advice than I can offer could perhaps be got via NACRO (in respect of criminal records / disclosure), one of the mental health organisations, and in respect of the current course, I'd have thought your student union has an advice service, and probably an officer who specialises in disability issues who may be in a position to advise.

 

[Miss Caphat]

I wrote the thing for the purpose of showing to my new therapist.. also showed it to my parents. Mum freaked out because she thinks it might 'fall into the wrong hands'. I'm not going to post it anywhere public or anything. It's in a google spreadsheet which is linked to my uni email address. I think it's extremely unlikely that anyone is going to go snooping in my google drive- and even if they did, so what? disclosing past drug use isn't illegal!
The drugs bit is important because MH professionals tend to focus on it too much imo, wanted to show patterns were related to relationships not drug use, so it's there to prove a point really.

university staff (other than tech support with your permission) should have no reason (nor means) to go into your email account, much less your linked google drive account. and yeah, I doubt they would care in the slightest anyway. this is a non-issue.
it would be more worthwhile to worry about baby alligators invading the UK and overthrowing the royal family and eating all of your chips. I hope that never happens, btw.

 

[stereoisomer]

Well this matter is most definitely settled now- I had a long conversation with the Dean of Science who is also my supervisor from my masters' year. I told him everything - EVERYTHING- stuff I wouldn't talk about on here etc. He was cooler than cool about it. Told me a few stories about other people working at the uni that if the Daily Mail got hold of,

So anyway whatever happens with this thing me and my ex have got hanging over us, I'm in the clear with work. They've got my back. Even if the absolute worst happened, I wouldn't be chucked off my course.

there is nothing about all that in the document I sent my mum by the way- was trying to keep her out of it.

 

[Celt]

The hypothetical situation is this:

University has a promising PhD student who has just started her course and seems to be doing well. Student discloses to supervisor she has mental health issues and is seeking treatment. Supervisor is very supportive as are all other university staff. Student writes down history of her
illness including illegal drug use up to the recent past. University somehow finds out about illegal drug use in the recent past and fires her from her PhD.

Does that scenario sound likely?

When the student wrote down her history of illness, whom saw this document?

 

[stereoisomer]

When the student wrote down her history of illness, whom saw this document?

read the thread, I'm going to bed now.
sorryif sounds rude

 

[Celt]

I wrote the thing for the purpose of showing to my new therapist.. also showed it to my parents. Mum freaked out because she thinks it might 'fall into the wrong hands'. I'm not going to post it anywhere public or anything. It's in a google spreadsheet which is linked to my uni email address. I think it's extremely unlikely that anyone is going to go snooping in my google drive- and even if they did, so what? disclosing past drug use isn't illegal!
The drugs bit is important because MH professionals tend to focus on it too much imo, wanted to show patterns were related to relationships not drug use, so it's there to prove a point really.

You answered my question, and providing you don't share it with anyone its unlikely ...

read the thread, I'm going to bed now.
sorryif sounds rude

it does a little, so I'll keep my opinion to myself, you've made your decision anyway.