Hating the police

[twentythreedom]

edited.

 

[coley]

I called you a liberal cos you're a whiny middle-class fucker

Had to leave this to grind the workers down but you seem to be losing your earlier sense of reason?

 

[twentythreedom]

Well yeah, ok , and I'm not an apologist for 5-0, but I didn't expect them to give a fuck about me, do you, or did you genuinely give a fuck about any of the jobs you've had? Coz I know for a fact I never did, all I wanted of them was for them to undertake their duties with a degree of proffessionalism, which they did.

And further to your comment about them giving a fuck, one of my closest mates, now her sister had killed herself, actual suicide...both bagheads at the time, now the surviving sis was fuckin distraught, her dad was in Wales, her mam was dead, her boyfriend was useless, I did me best, but what can the next door neighbour do when he's got problems of his own?And I've gotta say, dibble were superb, they really did help her & if they didn't give a fuck they were making a really good effort at looking like they did.

Yeah, fair enough. But I suspect that the giving a fuck came from the human being, not from their duties as a professional law enforcer.

 

[coley]

Yeah, fair enough. But I suspect that the giving a fuck came from the human being, not from their duties as a professional law enforcer.

Most people, in every walk of life,IMPO, gives a very large 'fuck' but when expressing that 'fuck' endangers there personal existence and security they then tend to think twice and resort to the comfort of legislation

 

[Proper Tidy]

now now, no need for unkind words. You're just proving my point though, that you jump to conclusions about anyone who challenges your world view. When called to account for those conclusions, it seems you start insulting people.

Well, sorry, I'm not some mug who will take this shit lying down. You've been called on being a beardy theory spouting lefty (one who's probably never seen the inside of a police cell), and all you can do is say "I'm a whiny middle class fucker". Lashing out with personal insults because you dont have anything coherent to counter me with. Quite sad.

I'm not jumping to conclusions. You are a middle class whiny fucker. You live in your mums outhouse ffs.

You've jumped to a few conclusions yourself here though eh

 

[Proper Tidy]

Had to leave this to grind the workers down but you seem to be losing your earlier sense of reason?

My reason is intact. Jon's middle class angst has long been a bugbear of mine.

What's this nonsense about whether coppers can be nice individuals or not? Of course they can. They are people, they're not made in a factory. It isn't about the individual. It's about the job they do and on who's behalf they do it.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I'm not jumping to conclusions. You are a middle class whiny fucker. You live in your mums outhouse ffs.

You've jumped to a few conclusions yourself here though eh

You seem to have paid a lot of attention to throwaway posts I made. Weird.

And whilst I did jump to conclusions about you, I'm note you dont really dispute them. Keyboard warrior lefty "tell others what they should be doing, but never do anything myself" knob head.

Do you ever wonder why so many people feel unable to relate to the ideas and movements of the UK left? It's because of people like you - self righteous, patronising, ideologically pure, dismissing the opinions and questions of people not reading straight from your lefty hymn-sheet, always looking to reassert your intelligence in a debate because your so insecure about the unpopularity of your ideas that winning an argument on technical grounds briefly convinces you your right again, yet you drive away interested people because you dont know how to convince them of anything, just how to browbeat them.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

My reason is intact. Jon's middle class angst has long been a bugbear of mine.

What's this nonsense about whether coppers can be nice individuals or not? Of course they can. They are people, they're not made in a factory. It isn't about the individual. It's about the job they do and on who's behalf they do it.

Why do you care that I had a middle class upbringing? Honestly, its weird that you would get so worked up about me, Touching, in a vaguely worrying "I've got someone I dont know thinking about me far too much" sort of way, but mostly just....weird.

 

[ViolentPanda]

No, I said its irrelevant, poverty, people being exploited etc has gone on from time immemorial and its usually the strongest, cleverest or the most ruthless who are responsible for the 'grinding down; irrespective of any imagined 'class'

Very rarely "the cleverest", actually. History doesn't tell us of many technocracies, and most clever people have their ideas appropriated. The likes of Bill Gates are relatively rare.

look at todays 'aristocracy' union leaders, CEOs of councils and others all earning more than the PM, all in some way exploiting the 'working classes' as does anyone belonging to a pension fund

You, like most people who voice views similar to yours, don't seem to have a good handle on what "class" and "class struggle" actually are.

 

[Proper Tidy]

You seem to have paid a lot of attention to throwaway posts I made. Weird.

And whilst I did jump to conclusions about you, I'm note you dont really dispute them. Keyboard warrior lefty "tell others what they should be doing, but never do anything myself" knob head.

Do you ever wonder why so many people feel unable to relate to the ideas and movements of the UK left? It's because of people like you - self righteous, patronising, ideologically pure, dismissing the opinions and questions of people not reading straight from your lefty hymn-sheet, lways looking to reassert your intelligence in a debate because your so insecure about the unpopularity of your ideas that winning an argument on technical grounds briefly convinces you your right again, yet you driving away interested people because you dont know how to convince them of anything, just how to browbeat them.

You always do this.

'Its cos of people like you I - and therefore presumably the rest of humanity - isn't a card carrying communist, if you stopped calling me a wanker and laughing at me for voting lib dem then I might not be such a narrow minded liberal'. Do one. Nobody else is responsible for you Jon, so get to fuck.

And I don't really need to dispute your usual strawman shit.

I did pay attention to you telling others that there were no issues with housing in this country and that you understood how hard it was to bring up a family in a damp-ridden flat because you were temporarily living in your mums annex, using her leccy, yes. Stuck in the mind for sone reason. Lol

 

[ViolentPanda]

The working class can kiss me arse i've got the foremans job at last, still very true today.

Really? You must have worked with some rightself-serving cunts in your time to think that is the case.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why do people say 'so and so earns more than the PM?

Just say 'so and so earns too much'. The PM doesn't have some inalienable right to earn more than everybody else on principle.

As far as I'm concerned, the cunts should be paying for the privilege, not making a wedge.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And if crow paid himself say 50% more than his average member than i would consider that more than fair

I may be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure the RMT and other unions have to put remuneration to the ballot.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

You always do this.

'Its cos of people like you I - and therefore presumably the rest of humanity - isn't a card carrying communist, if you stopped calling me a wanker and laughing at me for voting lib dem then I might not be such a narrow minded liberal'. Do one. Nobody else is responsible for you Jon, so get to fuck.

And I don't really need to dispute your usual strawman shit.

I did pay attention to you telling others that there were no issues with housing in this country and that you understood how hard it was to bring up a family in a damp-ridden flat because you were temporarily living in your mums annex, using her leccy, yes. Stuck in the mind for sone reason. Lol

That's the thing, I never voted lib dem, im a dues paying member of the IWW and I've been involved in local direct action campaigns in the not too distant past. So for you to draw conclusions about my politics simply because I question your analysis of the function of the police force, well, sort of shows your conclusions arent that sensible.

And again, you people wonder why you struggle to build a movement?

You cant dispute the beardy, pinko, knob head, never-even-been-nicked-but-fuck-da-police-anyway, keyboard warrior allegations because they are true.

I didnt say that there were no issues with housing, I repeatedly expressed my sympathy to wp for her situation and never compared it with mine. Another classic example of people interpreting innocuous questions as direct attacks, that thread.

 

[ViolentPanda]

What scargill did was to mount a doomed attack on an entrenched position and in doing so effectively destroyed the NUM and in the longer run the trade union movement,I spent nearly a year on strike thanks to that idiots blind egotism

An attack so doomed that MI5 had to deploy the majority of their field agents; so doomed that the intelligence services had to construct false stories for the media to print; so doomed that auntie beeb deliberately misrepresented the course of action on demos; so doomed that a scab union had to be formed.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Wilful ignorance is classless.

You could have phrased that rather more wittily, and said "wilful ignorance has no class".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't they end up in the Lords?

Depends how much government arse they've licked. That treacherous cunt Morris got his, imho, for fucking over the Liverpool dockers. Now, he justifies having cast them adrift because of the threat to the union's assets if he'd supported them, but how the fuck does he know whether his members would have sanctioned the risk or not? The cunt never balloted on it!

 

[Corax]

You could have phrased that rather more wittily, and said "wilful ignorance has no class".

I thought it was quite pithy as it was.

 

[Meltingpot]

As far as I'm concerned, the cunts should be paying for the privilege, not making a wedge.

Trouble is, if you do that you end up with a government full of rich people. We've been there before and (seem to heading back there sadly), but that would all but guarantee it.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Damn straight. In small rural parishes it's an entirely thankless task, and is generally performed by a mixture of the community-conscientious and the irrationally self-important. I'd say the vast majority are the former.

The latter can be annoying twats, though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Trouble is, if you do that you end up with a government full of rich people. We've been there before and (seem to heading back there sadly), but that would all but guarantee it.

Not if you make the cunts sign over their entire fortune to be used "in the public good".

 

[frogwoman]

i never understood why they didn't make them go to live in an MPs' hostel in London whenever they needed to be down there for debates etc, well actually i do understand, but it would cut a lot of "waste" etc.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Like firemen?

No, unfortunately.

Who legislates?
Is it "the people", or those who already have power and influence?
Whoever legislates has the ability to shape how policing takes place.

Who is seen as paying for the police?
Is it the tax-payer, or the Home Office?
Whoever pays the piper gets to call the tune.

This isn't merely a contention, it's supported by any analysis of policing in modern Britain. Can you think of any examples of the police refusing to do the bidding of the state?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Most dibble are fuckin workin class.

Many of them don't see policing as a "working class" job, though, and it's fairly accurate to state that much of the working class haven't historically viewed the police as fellow members of the proletariat.

 

[ViolentPanda]

why am I a liberal?

The bust of Jeremy Thorpe on your mantelpiece?

 

[DotCommunist]

i never understood why they didn't make them go to live in an MPs' hostel in London whenever they needed to be down there for debates etc, well actually i do understand, but it would cut a lot of "waste" etc.

Best suggestion I heard was drag a prison ship up the thames and let them use that for digs.

Bet a lot of the cunts would find themselves more pressing constituency work if they had to live in such plebian surroundings for a week

 

[coley]

Very rarely "the cleverest", actually. History doesn't tell us of many technocracies, and most clever people have their ideas appropriated. The likes of Bill Gates are relatively rare.

You, like most people who voice views similar to yours, don't seem to have a good handle on what "class" and "class struggle" actually are.

Because in todays society class divisions are blurred, the bloke living in the swanky house who owns a half dozen sweatshops is as likely to have come from a working class background while the druggie living in a cardboard box is as likely to have come from what used to be described as the 'upper classes' you cant be engaged in a 'class war' if you cant identify the ememy, unless you lump everybody above a certain income bracket as 'the enemy'

 

[coley]

The latter can be annoying twats, though.

We do our best

 

[coley]

An attack so doomed that MI5 had to deploy the majority of their field agents; so doomed that the intelligence services had to construct false stories for the media to print; so doomed that auntie beeb deliberately misrepresented the course of action on demos; so doomed that a scab union had to be formed.

So doomed from the minute scargill was elected, and as for fantasy, what about arfurs claim that the heaps of coal at the power stations were hollow? his ego and his jealousy of the achievments of Joe Gormley were prime movers in his haste to get us on stike.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Because in todays society class divisions are blurred, the bloke living in the swanky house who owns a half dozen sweatshops is as likely to have come from a working class background while the druggie living in a cardboard box is as likely to have come from what used to be described as the 'upper classes' you cant be engaged in a 'class war' if you cant identify the ememy, unless you lump everybody above a certain income bracket as 'the enemy'

Class divisions are fluid. Wow, there's an observation that no-one, least of all Marx, has made!
I'll put it simply. Class is partially defined by your economic position (what Marx referred to as your relationship to the means of production), partially defined by your social capital, and partially defined by several other concepts.

It's not defined by the class you were born into, and never has been.