Hating the police

[Jon-of-arc]

I don't think anybody has said the police only exist to protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful. Clearly many laws are in the interests of wider society. A great deal of the work the police do is socially useful. What people have said is that the police ultimately protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful, should those interests conflict with the rest of us.

I don't know why liberal types like you struggle with this. They are employed by and answerable to the state. They therefore uphold the will of the state.

why am I a liberal?

 

[Frances Lengel]

I saw a bailiff stoke a kitten once.

I shagged a cat once. But then I had ter kill the toytoyse shelled prick. Coz It'd sin me face. Nah, I didn't really - But did you mean to say stroke, though?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Good individuals exist within bad institutions.

And people can do good things and bad things and believe that even the bad things are for the greater good.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Very simply, the state won't exist or be stable if it doesn't maintain order over its citizens. The government creates the laws of the land - to uphold the smooth functioning of the state. Amongst all the laws and legislation set down (for the economic and social good as that government sees it - which will change depending on political leaning of those governments in power), their ultimate priority is to make sure that the state is stable, developed and steered in the direction that they believe it needs to be.

In our class-based society, those that overwhelmingly still get into the positions of power to set such laws are from the higher echelons - they are in receipt of capital, wealth and privilege. Therefore, class determines very much the 'make-up' of those people that are tasked to run the state. This obviously brings with it protection over their own interests and positions of privilege/power. It's inevitable.

Riots, uprisings, etc. threaten that stability and by and large threaten those with capital, wealth and privilege the most. The police are there to enforce the laws, set down by government, to protect the state. Whilst the police themselves have a large remit of what they actually do (and clearly much of this is of benefit to the public on a day to day basis), they are ultimately still there to maintain order - of the state, the government of the day, the royal family.

So whilst protecting the wealthy and powerful might not be written into their job descriptions, by virtue of their function and who they are accountable to at the top, that is what they do.

Good answer.

 

[Proper Tidy]

why am I a liberal?

Dunno, why are you a liberal?

 

[Proper Tidy]

I shagged a cat once. But then I had ter kill the toytoyse shelled prick. Coz It'd sin me face. Nah, I didn't really - But did you mean to say stroke, though?

No he fucked it

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Dunno, why are you a liberal?

because i'm not.

why did you call me a liberal?

 

[Proper Tidy]

because i'm not.

why did you call me a liberal?

Because of what you say, how you view the world, the usual reasons. I didn't realise it would be contentious; I assumed you were already aware you were a liberal.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Because of what you say, how you view the world, the usual reasons. I didn't realise it would be contentious; I assumed you were already aware you were a liberal.

You dont know how I view the world. Nothing I've said on this thread has given an even vague hint as to my political leanings.

 

[Proper Tidy]

You dont know how I view the world. Nothing I've said on this thread has given an even vague hint as to my political leanings.

You are asking whether the police are biased against the working class Jon. Really.

And you've written other posts.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Right, have any of youse chumps ever read "The People Of Providence"? What it is is a series of interviews with residents on this South London estate from back in the 70's, the reason I'm asking if any of youse have read it is twofold... Once coz it's London, and there's every chance the place nicknamed Providence is still standing & I'd love to hear where it actually is and how the place is doing these days.

And second, coz there's a polisman in it who's essentially an ok guy, like most of them are.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

You are asking whether the police are biased against the working class Jon. Really.

And you've written other posts.

No, I asked someone to explain how the police protect the powerful.

Stop putting words into my mouth.

 

[Frances Lengel]

You are asking whether the police are biased against the working class Jon. Really.

And you've written other posts.

Most dibble are fuckin workin class.

 

[Proper Tidy]

No, I asked someone to explain how the police protect the powerful.

Stop putting words into my mouth.

Same difference.

Why do you object to being labelled a liberal?

 

[Frances Lengel]

Good individuals exist within bad institutions.

Taking the OP as context, I'd agree that's not often recognised on urban - but that itself is for good reason.

Good individuals can exist - Within bad institutions., That's a good post.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Britain's most senior police officer with responsibility for public order raised the spectre of a return of the riots of the 1980s, with people who have lost their jobs, homes or savings becoming "footsoldiers" in a wave of potentially violent mass protests.

Superintendent David Hartshorn, who heads the Metropolitan police's public order branch, told the Guardian that middle-class individuals who would never have considered joining demonstrations may now seek to vent their anger through protests this year.

He said that banks, particularly those that still pay large bonuses despite receiving billions in taxpayer money, had become "viable targets". So too had the headquarters of multinational companies and other financial institutions in the City which are being blamed for the financial crisis.

Hartshorn, who receives regular intelligence briefings on potential causes of civil unrest, said the mood at some demonstrations had changed recently, with activists increasingly "intent on coming on to the streets to create public disorder".
The warning comes in the wake of often violent protests against the handling of the economy across Europe. In recent weeks Greek farmers have blocked roads over falling agricultural prices, a million workers in France joined demonstrations to demand greater protection for jobs and wages and Icelandic demonstrators have clashed with police in Reykjavik.

In the UK hundreds of oil refinery workers mounted wildcat strikes last month over the use of foreign workers.

Intelligence reports suggest that "known activists" are also returning to the streets, and police claim they will foment unrest. "Those people would be good at motivating people, but they haven't had the 'footsoldiers' to actually carry out [protests]," Hartshorn said. "Obviously the downturn in the economy, unemployment, repossessions, changes that. Suddenly there is the opportunity for people to mass protest.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/feb/23/police-civil-unrest-recession

 

[Proper Tidy]

Most dibble are fuckin workin class.

If an investment bank was staffed by communists, it would still be an investment bank.

 

[stethoscope]

Most dibble are fuckin workin class.

Most of the ones I've encountered the last 10 years seem to be middle class careerists. Hardly a Burnside or Hollis in sight.

 

[Proper Tidy]

It doesn't matter what class individual coppers are anyway. What matters is the function of the police. The army exists to enforce the will of the state overseas. The police exist to enforce it at home.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Same difference.

Why do you object to being labelled a liberal?

No, it's not the same difference at all. It's like I asked about, I dunno, how a specific gun works, and you read that as me asking if the gun was biased against its victims. Your living in some weird lefty bubble, like a lot of people here.

Why do I object to being called a liberal? Because people on here use that term pejoratively, because whilst I fully admit my politics lack definition, they definitely fall markedly to the left. To be honest though, if being a liberal just meant I wasn't a boring beardy left wing tosser who viewed the simplest technical question as being indicative of the askers world-view, I guess I know which camp I'd rather fall into.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Most of the ones I've encountered the last 10 years seem to be middle class careerists. Hardly a Burnside or Hollis in sight.

There is that i'm at a more than a slight disadvantage here, though, coz I'm not entirely sure who Hollis and Burnside were? I'm not sure about middle class careerists, but a lot of polis seem to be steroid-bloated aggro wankers these days, but that just might be the circles within whichI've been used to moving.

 

[Frances Lengel]

It doesn't matter what class individual coppers are anyway. What matters is the function of the police. The army exists to enforce the will of the state overseas. The police exist to enforce it at home.

Bit of goalpost moving, there.

 

[Proper Tidy]

No, it's not the same difference at all. It's like I asked about, I dunno, how a specific gun works, and you read that as me asking if the gun was biased against its victims. Your living in some weird lefty bubble, like a lot of people here.

Why do I object to being called a liberal? Because people on here use that term pejoratively, because whilst I fully admit my politics lack definition, they definitely fall markedly to the left. To be honest though, if being a liberal just meant I wasn't a boring beardy left wing tosser who viewed the simplest technical question as being indicative of the askers world-view, I guess I know which camp I'd rather fall into.

Okay then, you're not a liberal. Just a wet cunt.

By 'fall markedly to the left' I assume you mean you have liberal attitudes. But you're not a liberal.

Do you really think mistrust of the police is a lefty anorak thing? Hmmm.

 

[stethoscope]

There is that i'm at a more than a slight disadvantage here, though, coz I'm not entirely sure who Hollis and Burnside were? I'm not sure about middle class careerists, but a lot of polis seem to be steroid-bloated aggro wankers these days, but that just might be the circles within whichI've been used to moving.

Burnside and Hollis were a DCI and beat copper in an ITV soap/drama called The Bill. Though whether I should be admitting I used to watch it, probably not

 

[Proper Tidy]

Bit of goalpost moving, there.

Which bit? I've not made reference to which class coppers originate from, you started all that nonsense. I'd already said up thread individual class doesn't matter.

The police isn't a collection of individuals, is it? They don't get given a badge and a steed and told to go out and enforce justice however they see fit.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Shit, I think I know who yer mean ...... Or was it Tosh Lines?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Okay then, you're not a liberal. Just a wet cunt.

By 'fall markedly to the left' I assume you mean you have liberal attitudes. But you're not a liberal.

Do you really think mistrust of the police is a lefty anorak thing? Hmmm.

I think that labeling a person a "liberal" simply because they asked for clarification about the nature and reasons behind that mistrust is definitely a lefty anorak thing. A tell-tale sign. Actually, a big fucking alarm bell ringing out the words "smug unthinking lefty dunce - too insecure in his own little world view to have someone ask a perfectly reasonable question" every time you open your mouth.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I called you a liberal cos you're a whiny middle-class fucker

 

[Frances Lengel]

I called you a liberal cos you're a whiny middle-class fucker

You are a bit of a bell then, aren't ya?

 

[Jon-of-arc]

I called you a liberal cos you're a whiny middle-class fucker

now now, no need for unkind words. You're just proving my point though, that you jump to conclusions about anyone who challenges your world view. When called to account for those conclusions, it seems you start insulting people.

Well, sorry, I'm not some mug who will take this shit lying down. You've been called on being a beardy theory spouting lefty (one who's probably never seen the inside of a police cell), and all you can do is say "I'm a whiny middle class fucker". Lashing out with personal insults because you dont have anything coherent to counter me with. Quite sad.