Hating the police

[coley]

Less than 50% though in all likelihood - the vast majority won't bother voting. Second time round you got in without any democratic mandate whatsoever.

So why should working people seeking to defend their jobs be held up to a higher standard of democracy than glorified neighbourhood watch like you?

let whoever wants to strike get on with it as long as they dont object to non union members going to work, as for a mandate ? well if people dont like what i (or we) do they can call an election but as you point out they usually cant be arsed, much the same with unions these days.
You have just seen the biggest strike for a generation, can you tell me what it achieved?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Well I never knew that, I assume that every decision they take has to be ratified by some elected body further up the line, do parish councils have control of there own budget?

Parish councillors have very little power anyway. The budgets are tiny and it is mostly getting footpaths cleared by the county council, occasional report from the police about burglaries in the area, stuff like that.

 

[Buzz sw9]

Yes, its called a precept. and co-opted councillors have to stand for election once they come around

A quick Google shows that some of these parish council have relatively large sums of money to spend. How is the parish boundary defined? Is it the same as the church of England parish boundary?

 

[DotCommunist]

let whoever wants to strike get on with it as long as they dont object to non union members going to work, as for a mandate ? well if people dont like what i (or we) do they can call an election but as you point out they usually cant be arsed, much the same with unions these days.
You have just seen the biggest strike for a generation, can you tell me what it achieved?

fuck that, lets go closed shops through and through. Aint hurt the japanese

 

[Proper Tidy]

let whoever wants to strike get on with it as long as they dont object to non union members going to work, as for a mandate ? well if people dont like what i (or we) do they can call an election but as you point out they usually cant be arsed, much the same with unions these days.
You have just seen the biggest strike for a generation, can you tell me what it achieved?

Non-union members have the option of joining the union, participating in union democracy, and then abiding by that democracy by following the verdict of the ballot. Non-union members are happy enough to accept the improved conditions brought about by union agitation.

Same goes with abstaining union members. They could have chosen to participate in the ballot, in the democratic process of their workmates. If they haven't then they can't really piss and moan about the result.

If they want to work then they can, they will be scabs though however you cut it.

As for the 30th November strikes, who knows yet. Certainly seemed to ruffle the government's feathers.

 

[twentythreedom]

buggered if i can remember

see post #409

 

[Corax]

Most parish councillors are co-opted. Nobody wants to do it.

Damn straight. In small rural parishes it's an entirely thankless task, and is generally performed by a mixture of the community-conscientious and the irrationally self-important. I'd say the vast majority are the former.

 

[Proper Tidy]

There's quite a lot of the latter though

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Just so's I understand the argument, can someone please explain, in very simple terms, exactly how the police protect the ruling classes.

 

[Corax]

There's quite a lot of the latter though

I've no empirical evidence either way, but yeah. When you have a system that's so reliant on goodwill, I'm not sure what you can do to guard against that though.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Just so's I understand the argument, can someone please explain, in very simple terms, exactly how the police protect the ruling classes.

The police are paid by, and accountable to, the state.

The end.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

The police are paid by, and accountable to, the state.

The end.

Like firemen?

 

[stethoscope]

Like firemen?

No.

 

[Corax]

The remit may have some bearing.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I've no empirical evidence either way, but yeah. When you have a system that's so reliant on goodwill, I'm not sure what you can do to guard against that though.

To be honest, it's good these people have something to do which largely passes the rest of us by. Otherwise they'd all be writing massive letters to the local paper and getting on our tits.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

No.

This isnt having it explained in the clear and simple terms that I asked and was hoping for...

 

[Proper Tidy]

The people who make the laws are called the ruling class.

They pay the police to enforce their laws.

Firemen do not enforce laws.

 

[stethoscope]

This isnt having it explained in the clear and simple terms that I asked and was hoping for...

Come one, I'm sure you can work out the key differences between the remits of the police and fire brigade.

 

[Proper Tidy]

They put fires out and rescue cats and let kids sit in their cabs at school fetes.

 

[Jon-of-arc]

Come one, I'm sure you can work out the key differences between the remit of the police and fire brigade.

Yeah, I can , but my question is more fundamental than that though. The assertion is being repeatedly made that the police only exist to protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful. I really want some simple explanations about how they fulfill this function.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Talkin about firefighters though, there does seem to be a lot of prejudice against them, when one reads letters pages of local newspapers, one is veritably innundated with foaming slaverers saying sumat along the lines of "They don't rescue kids out of burning buildings every day, most of the time the're just laid in their wanking chariots", every time the poor cunts go on strike, you'll hear some gibberer saying sumat along those lines & it's proper bullshit, even if they go in a burning building once a year, that's one more time than I'd want to do it. Out of all the 999 fuckers, firefighters get slagged off the most & it's entirely undeserved, me, I don't like paramedics, some of them seem to have proper bad attitudes.

 

[discokermit]

I really want some simple explanations about how they fulfill this function.

with big sticks, usually.

 

[Frances Lengel]

Yeah, I can , but my question is more fundamental than that though. The assertion is being repeatedly made that the police only exist to protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful. I really want some simple explanations about how they fulfill this function.

You have got a point there, last February, I was getting proper hassle, windows going in every night, the door being booted in (through no fault of me own, it was me lodgers they were after, sayin that, though, it wasn't really me lodgers fault either.). But anyway, I did phone the dibble on more than one occasion & they did help me ..and I'm neither wealthy nor powerful.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Yeah, I can , but my question is more fundamental than that though. The assertion is being repeatedly made that the police only exist to protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful. I really want some simple explanations about how they fulfill this function.

I don't think anybody has said the police only exist to protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful. Clearly many laws are in the interests of wider society. A great deal of the work the police do is socially useful. What people have said is that the police ultimately protect the interests of the wealthy and powerful, should those interests conflict with the rest of us.

I don't know why liberal types like you struggle with this. They are employed by and answerable to the state. They therefore uphold the will of the state.

 

[twentythreedom]

You have got a point there, last February, I was getting proper hassle, windows going in every night, the door being booted in (through no fault of me own, it was me lodgers they were after, sayin that, though, it wasn't really me lodgers fault either.). But anyway, I did phone the dibble on more than one occasion & they did help me ..and I'm neither wealthy nor powerful.

It's in the powerful's interests to keep the workers feeling vaguely satisfied and therefore compliant and productive, keeping the wheels of industry turning. Dibble help you (them / us) in order to help TPTB, ultimately. They don't actually give a fuck about you.

 

[stethoscope]

Very simply, the state won't exist or be stable if it doesn't maintain order over its citizens. The government creates the laws of the land - to uphold the smooth functioning of the state. Amongst all the laws and legislation set down (for the economic and social good as that government sees it - which will change depending on political leaning of those governments in power), their ultimate priority is to make sure that the state is stable, developed and steered in the direction that they believe it needs to be.

In our class-based society, those that overwhelmingly still get into the positions of power to set such laws are from the higher echelons - they are in receipt of capital, wealth and privilege. Therefore, class determines very much the 'make-up' of those people that are tasked to run the state. This obviously brings with it protection over their own interests and positions of privilege/power. It's inevitable.

Riots, uprisings, etc. threaten that stability and by and large threaten those with capital, wealth and privilege the most. The police are there to enforce the laws, set down by government, to protect the state. Whilst the police themselves have a large remit of what they actually do (and clearly much of this is of benefit to the public on a day to day basis), they are ultimately still there to maintain order - of the state, the government of the day, the royal family.

So whilst protecting the wealthy and powerful might not be written into their job descriptions, by virtue of their function and who they are accountable to at the top, that is what they do.

 

[Proper Tidy]

It's also how they enforce law and order.

For example, clearly protecting children is in the interests of wider society, not merely the rich and powerful. Yet the responses of the police (and media) to missing kids varies depending on the kids social background. Or drugs; drugs are at every level of society, yet it is the working class that is overwhelmingly criminalised by drug use - for a variety if reasons, including the uneven way the police and CJS enforces the law.

 

[Frances Lengel]

It's in the powerful's interests to keep the workers feeling vaguely satisfied and therefore compliant and productive, keeping the wheels of industry turning. Dibble help you (them / us) in order to help TPTB, ultimately. They don't actually give a fuck about you.

Well yeah, ok , and I'm not an apologist for 5-0, but I didn't expect them to give a fuck about me, do you, or did you genuinely give a fuck about any of the jobs you've had? Coz I know for a fact I never did, all I wanted of them was for them to undertake their duties with a degree of proffessionalism, which they did.

And further to your comment about them giving a fuck, one of my closest mates, now her sister had killed herself, actual suicide...both bagheads at the time, now the surviving sis was fuckin distraught, her dad was in Wales, her mam was dead, her boyfriend was useless, I did me best, but what can the next door neighbour do when he's got problems of his own?And I've gotta say, dibble were superb, they really did help her & if they didn't give a fuck they were making a really good effort at looking like they did.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I saw a bailiff stoke a kitten once.

 

[Corax]

Good individuals exist within bad institutions.

Taking the OP as context, I'd agree that's not often recognised on urban - but that itself is for good reason.