Hating the police

[stethoscope]

Just pointing out that most will trample others in the rush up the greasy pole

Really? Or is that just some sort of validation of what you've done?

 

[stethoscope]

And if crow paid himself say 50% more than his average member than i would consider that more than fair

He's elected by the members, and they have a full committee where this stuff is all agreed. If members didn't think he did the job he was there for very well, or he was paid too much, then they'd leave or want him ousted.

Now if only Unison could get a leader with a backbone like Crow's.

 

[Proper Tidy]

No, but it seems a bit strange that we have a situation where unelected council officers can pay themselves such salaries

I agree. I just don't see what it has to do with the PMs income. He earns far too fucking much an all

 

[coley]

I don't think union leaders should be paid large salaries. I think their salaries should place them in the same position economically as their members.

But I don't think this renders trade unionism redundant or corrupt. When union members strike, they do so to defend their own jobs, having had the democratic opportunity to so. The union leader has nothing to do with it.

I never saw Scargills gaff on Through The Keyhole. I'm imagining North Korean chic with a shade of Caesescu.

I would say the level of honesty amongs trade union officials is on a par with Pickmans view of councillors

 

[coley]

He's elected by the members, and they have a full committee where this stuff is all agreed. If members didn't think he did the job he was there for very well, or he was paid too much, then they'd leave or want him ousted.

Now if only Unison could get a leader that stood up to the government.

like Scargill you mean?

 

[stethoscope]

like Scargill you mean?

Well at least he tried to do something in the face of Thatchers attack. You were a miner and yet you've turned into a Tory loving capitalist like the ones that fucked over the mines and the mining community.

Short on those 'socialist' principles you were going on about on another thread.

 

[coley]

Really? Or is that just some sort of validation of what you've done?

I honestly have no need to validate anything I have done

 

[coley]

Well at least he tried to do something in the face of Thatchers attack. You were a miner and yet you've turned into a Tory loving capitalist like the ones that fucked over the mines and the mining community.

Short on those 'socialist' principles you were going on about on another thread.

 

[Proper Tidy]

I would say the level of honesty amongs trade union officials is on a par with Pickmans view of councillors

Depends on the union, on whether the officials can be held to account (even better, elected or recalled) by the rank and file or whether they answer to the union bureaucracy.

Even so. A union is two things - it's membership and it's bureaucracy. When unions strike, it is the members who choose to go out; it is the members who lose wages; it is the members who benefit if the strike works. It is ordinary working class people defending themselves. Why this is undermined by (legitimate) concerns about the accountability of union officials us beyond me.

 

[Red Storm]

I heard a fairly good defence of trade union leaders high wages.

They argued once Crow, for example, isn't the Gen Sec of the RMT who will employ him? They argued that the leadership should get a high wage so that they can live of it after the leave office.

 

[coley]

Well at least he tried to do something in the face of Thatchers attack. You were a miner and yet you've turned into a Tory loving capitalist like the ones that fucked over the mines and the mining community.

Short on those 'socialist' principles you were going on about on another thread.

What scargill did was to mount a doomed attack on an entrenched position and in doing so effectively destroyed the NUM and in the longer run the trade union movement,I spent nearly a year on strike thanks to that idiots blind egotism

 

[Proper Tidy]

If you can justify wages of £100k plus for one job, you can justify high wages for any job, imo. Bankers don't deserve such wages; politicians don't; company directors don't; so neither do union bosses.

Do you support the right to strike Coley? Or only in certain circumstances etc?

 

[coley]

I heard a fairly good defence of trade union leaders high wages.

They argued once Crow, for example, isn't the Gen Sec of the RMT who will employ him? They argued that the leadership should get a high wage so that they can live of it after the leave office.

Once elected they are there until they retire so why pay them more than the average wage of their members? with the same retirement benefits?

 

[stethoscope]

What scargill did was to mount a doomed attack on an entrenched position and in doing so effectively destroyed the NUM and in the longer run the trade union movement,I spent nearly a year on strike thanks to that idiots blind egotism

No, Thatchers neo-liberalism destroyed mining. But you Tory anti-union lot always like to misdirect your blame.

And hey, you're 'all right jack' now. You must have got on your bike like the good Tebbitt told you to (after they'd demolished your livelihood and community).

 

[coley]

If you can justify wages of £100k plus for one job, you can justify high wages for any job, imo. Bankers don't deserve such wages; politicians don't; company directors don't; so neither do union bosses.

Do you support the right to strike Coley? Or only in certain circumstances etc?

Of course I do but only if more than 50 % of the workforce votes for it, as for bankers and their ilk they should have a masssive pay cut, now we have unions with large amounts of shares in those banks, why are those unions not agitating for bankers pay cuts?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Without wanting to get into the miners strike, and baring in mind Scargills politics are shit, it's hard to see what alternatives were open to the miners, the NUM or Scargill. But anyway.

 

[Corax]

Petit bourgeois? sorry pet, us working class types dont do french.

Wilful ignorance is classless.

 

[Buzz sw9]

I heard a fairly good defence of trade union leaders high wages.

They argued once Crow, for example, isn't the Gen Sec of the RMT who will employ him? They argued that the leadership should get a high wage so that they can live of it after the leave office.

Don't they end up in the Lords?

Yes the first time, co-opted this time.

That's an interesting form of democracy, get yourself elected once then get op-opted.

 

[twentythreedom]

Cops are so gay.

The one in the middle is totally checking out some stormtrooper-of-the-new-world-order batty!

 

[Proper Tidy]

Of course I do but only if more than 50 % of the workforce votes for it, as for bankers and their ilk they should have a masssive pay cut, now we have unions with large amounts of shares in those banks, why are those unions not agitating for bankers pay cuts?

Many unions are, but as i've already made clear I'm not interested in defending union leaders or their salaries. It isn't the union leaders who vote to, or go out on, strike.

Why 50%? What share of the vote did you get when you were elected? 15%?

 

[Proper Tidy]

Don't they end up in the Lords?

That's an interesting form of democracy, get yourself elected once then get op-opted.

Most parish councillors are co-opted. Nobody wants to do it.

 

[coley]

No, Thatchers neo-liberalism destroyed mining. But you Tory anti-union lot always like to misdirect your blame.

And hey, you're 'all right jack' now. You must have got on your bike like the good Tebbitt told you to (after they'd demolished your livelihood and community).

Nope i havent moved, just built a business out of what I did on a voluntary basis when I was a miner, Scargill walked straight into thatchers trap, going on strike in march when the country had a full stockpile of coal, an intelligent move would have been a work to rule until coal stocks were lower but intelligence and scargill is an oxymoron

 

[frogwoman]

if you're elected you're there till you retire?

so all unions only have elections when their bosses die ... er lolwut

 

[coley]

if you're elected you're there till you retire?

so all unions only have elections when their bosses die ... er lolwut

Most senior positions are until retirement, lower down at branch level are usually elective

 

[Proper Tidy]

So what share of the vote did you get?

 

[stethoscope]

"Do-do-do, come on and do the conga".

 

[Buzz sw9]

Most parish councillors are co-opted. Nobody wants to do it.

Well I never knew that, I assume that every decision they take has to be ratified by some elected body further up the line, do parish councils have control of there own budget?

 

[coley]

So what share of the vote did you get?

buggered if i can remember

 

[coley]

Well I never knew that, I assume that every decision they take has to be ratified by some elected body further up the line, do parish councils have control of there own budget?

Yes, its called a precept. and co-opted councillors have to stand for election once they come around

 

[Proper Tidy]

buggered if i can remember

Less than 50% though in all likelihood - the vast majority won't bother voting. Second time round you got in without any democratic mandate whatsoever.

So why should working people seeking to defend their jobs be held up to a higher standard of democracy than glorified neighbourhood watch like you?