Grenfell Tower fire in North Kensington - news and discussion

[bimble]

Will write some stuff tomorrow but what I got from going to the demo today which ended at the base of grenfell tower is massive respect for my fellow Londoners, there was a lot of wisdom there in with the rage. I've never felt anything like the atmosphere at the memorial wall.

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't want to jump to conclusions yet. There are many older tower blocks in London with no sprinkler system as standard. The Barbican development for example. Which is private.

A fair amount of money was spent cladding this tower block. It's about making them more insulated. Many Council blocks have this.

The question is whether this was done properly and the right fire resistant cladding was used ( newspaper reports say possibly this was not the case).

On top of this is how the less well off feel there are two Londons. One for rich and poor. This is correct imo. But it's separate issue.

Like the Deptford Fire a whole load of issues are coming into national view.

New Cross house fire - Wikipedia

This time the Queen has been quick to visit. I'm sure that's a lesson learnt from the Deptford fire.

Also shown aod may up

 

[ViolentPanda]

Read that someone called Peter Jukes on twitter says that S*n journos have been pretending to be injured victims to gain access to the injured in a hospital. They never learn.

Jukes is a good journo. He co-wrote a decent overview of the Daniel Morgan murder with the deceased's brother.

 

[Pickman's model]

I work in mental health in Kensington. The repercussions of this are wider than anyone can imagine.

If anyone has practical or counselling skills or anything at all to give in terms of time, please email [email protected]

It's the address we've been given. They are looking for shifts tomorrow. There will be other places and it'd be good if people post them.

Please include your mobile no. if emailing.

(((harpo))) best wishes and strength

 

[ViolentPanda]

If you don't improve the housing we're living in for your cash gains, we ain't paying the rent, so get to fuck. A collective action that I dream about & that's long overdue. Sadly the residents of Grenfell won't be here to fight for that, but we are!

We know from the anti-Poll Tax movement that local authorities get easily overwhelmed when people stop paying, and rent strikes would make much more of a dent than withholding the Poll Tax ever did. Every Magistrates' Court in the land would be snowed under with council-issued summonses.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Jukes knows a lot about that murky world of The Sun and News Of The World - he did that Byline podcast about the Daniel Morgan murder and implicated many NoW journos, right up to Rebekah Brookes, in their dealings with Jonathan Rees and his lowlife chums.

Did a good book, too.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Amazing it has not fell in on its own footprint.

Concrete core poured around steel girders to which each steel-reinforced concrete floor is mounted. The external and internal walls of the flats are probably fucked, but the basic structure is hanging on because the loading is through the strongest components of the surviving building*.

*This is according to a civil engineer mate, who reckons Grenfell House still standing is actually a good argument for safety-refurbing such blocks properly, and getting another 50 years of liveable housing use out of them, IF local authorities and other landlords maintain them properly.

 

[ferrelhadley]

*This is according to a civil engineer mate, who reckons Grenfell House still standing is actually a good argument for safety-refurbing such blocks properly, and getting another 50 years of liveable housing use out of them, IF local authorities and other landlords maintain them properly.

The architect had written something about it over a year ago and had Ronan Point very firmly in mind and built a building that would not collapse except at the most extreme case.

 

[ViolentPanda]

'ouhv/;iyhv/ihycv/iyhcv /'iyhv'jv'o/uhv 'ijhkb hgvtesca yrweashtrvjyrfbtluih;mo'poipmoumoij'omij[nihih[io;jh;noih;oijnm;iojm;oij;miojmn[moinj[

Why have you summoned the Great Old One Nyarlathotep, sister-brother to Cthulhu, Surfer in the Starry Chaos, mortal?

 

[harpo]

I've been in Portobello today and it's heartbreaking how many 'missing' posters are in every window. They only went up the day before yesterday. It's fucking unreal. And yet that SHITTY building took 15 minutes to kill hundreds. People NEED to be angry,

 

[Lord Camomile]

Why have you summoned the Great Old One Nyarlathotep, sister-brother to Cthulhu, Surfer in the Starry Chaos, mortal?

Someone had to deal with Covfefe.

 

[TheHoodedClaw]

Why have you summoned the Great Old One Nyarlathotep, sister-brother to Cthulhu, Surfer in the Starry Chaos, mortal?

It's a really, really gnarly regular expression that is searching for "covfefe"

Edit: FFS simul-covfefe

 

[Lurdan]

We know from the anti-Poll Tax movement that local authorities get easily overwhelmed when people stop paying, and rent strikes would make much more of a dent than withholding the Poll Tax ever did. Every Magistrates' Court in the land would be snowed under with council-issued summonses.

Absolutely, particularly since they haven't 'streamlined' the legal processes for recovering rent in the way they did for Council Tax.

However one thing that has changed since poll tax days - which affected all residents - is the extent and knock on effects of Right to Buy. The block I live on isn't anything like as desirable as some others, near the river say, but whereas tenants were a majority when I moved in today we are a minority. And among the leaseheld flats the distinctions between owner-occupied, sub-tenanted, sub-sub-tenanted and now airbnb style arrangements has further fractured what community there is, and to some extent what common interests there are. We twice voted down attempts to transfer us to other social landlords. I have to wonder what would happen if they revise the balloting rules (for example to address the 'democratic deficit' that leaseholders don't have a vote) and try again in the future. It's not an ideal basis from which to organize a rent strike.

 

[SpookyFrank]

Absolutely, particularly since they haven't 'streamlined' the legal processes for recovering rent in the way they did for Council Tax.

Streamlined is right. Couple of years back I managed to get taken to court, convicted in my absence of non payment of council tax and fined accordingly before I'd even had time to miss a fucking payment in the first place.

 

[Pickman's model]

Streamlined is right. Couple of years back I managed to get taken to court, convicted in my absence of non payment of council tax and fined accordingly before I'd even had time to miss a fucking payment in the first place.

Yeh but you'd *thought* about it

 

[Fingers]

One would think that Jeremy Corbyn is running the country at the moment...

 

[ViolentPanda]

The systemic problems that led to the tragedy are one thing, but the way the responses have been bungled is astonishing. Just across the board.

How have they continued to fuck up so badly, every step of the way?! May's 'visit', the lack of involvement from the council... fucking bemusing

There's a perception - rife among large corporates and public bodies - that issues such as disasters can be "managed". It generally means the passing of responsibility from party to party ever more rapidly. The fuck-ups are a direct result of this.

 

[ferrelhadley]

 

[ViolentPanda]

right at the end, ceaucescu flailingly announced massive increases in wages as the crowd got restless. Then fucked off in a helicopter.


This is mays ceaucescu moment

May's Ceaucescu moment will be when she and her hubby are dragged from their car, put up against a wall, and shot.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Streamlined is right. Couple of years back I managed to get taken to court, convicted in my absence of non payment of council tax and fined accordingly before I'd even had time to miss a fucking payment in the first place.

All the funnier because of all those councillors who've "forgotten" to pay council tax Private Eye has been digging up the last few months.

 

[DaveCinzano]

An interesting collection of front covers for tomorrow. Astonishingly the Sun's one is not wholly offensive.

 

[ska invita]

An interesting collection of front covers for tomorrow. Astonishingly the Sun's one is not wholly offensive.

Murdoch (Sun and Times) has turned on May post-election I think...that thing about him storming out on hearing the exit poll has been verified from other sources since it was first tweeted about

 

[Ptolemy]

The Telegraph's headline is typical right-wing smearing though... no surprises there!

 

[not-bono-ever]

Xmas day '89 IIRC ViolentPanda .

Its a long wait until Xmas 2017

 

[eoin_k]

I'm just back from a demo in Westminster and then catching up with people around Latimer Road. A lot of pain and anger on display and rightly so. They can't get away with this.

 

[UrbaneFox]

It can be difficult to see the electoral register. There used to be one in every post office, but that no longer seems to be the case.

I tried to look at one in the public library in my home town last year, but they no longer keep one, the excuse being that it is constantly being updated / financial reasons. I was sent to the Town Hall reception, where I was asked exactly I wanted to see, and shown just that. I meant to mention it on here, can't remember if I did.

They used to keep a copy in Kensington library on Hornton Street. I might drop by and see if it is still available, or if you have to lodge a formal request to see it. RBKC is always sending letters asking for updates on who lives where, and although the ER will list only adults who are registered to vote, it might give some idea of who is missing in the area, although as harpo says, a walk down Portobello shows that.

 

[ferrelhadley]

View attachment 109526

The cold politics is had May gone down early on Wednesday and the residents been angry at her she could have turned that into a plus for herself.
"I am head of government and this government has let these people down at some point. Their anger is entirely justified and I am hear to listen to that anger and accept it with humility thus I having listened I am ordering blah blah blah..."
I think she is mentally shot, her political judgement is gone. And the tory press are getting the same smell. Few in the press are taking the hit for her anymore. Going through the motions until she can announce a new leadership election at conference.

 

[gawkrodger]

I would recommend not looking at teh front page of the Telegraph if you want to maintain low blood pressure levels

 

[sealion]

 

[DaveCinzano]

I have been truly heartened by the demands being made by people of the council and the government, and the unwillingness to have any shit:

WE WANT A PROPER INVESTIGATION INTO WHAT HAPPENED!
Sure, one ‘public inquiry’ special coming up...
OH NO, WE KNOW THAT OLD TRICK - GIVE US INQUESTS!
Well, I don't think inquests are...
INQUESTS! INQUESTS NOT PUBLIC INQUIRY!
But...
DO I STUTTER? INQUESTS!
But...
YOU SURE SEEM TO! INQUESTS!
Uh, I guess we can look into it...
AND REHOUSE THE PEOPLE!
Oh shit, ah...
REHOUSE THE PEOPLE!
Erm, okay, we'll try...
NOT GOOD ENOUGH! REHOUSE THEM ALL NOW!
Okay, okay - within three weeks...
YOU BETTER MAKE SURE THEY GET TO STAY IN THE BOROUGH!
But...But...
INSIDE.THE.BOROUGH!
Maybe... Alright, we'll try for inside the borough, but definitely no further than a neighbouring borough...
AND DON'T CHARGE THEM FOR REPLACING THEIR VITAL DOCUMENTS
Bu-
NOTHING! YOU CHARGE THEM NOTHING!