Golliwog in the window - should this really be in court?

[littlebabyjesus]

Hang the Golly

 

[Spymaster]

And incorporating incredible levels of policing against much, much more invasive things than mere turns of phrase. The Left is apparently beyond the pale when people say mean things on the internet (which of course right-wingers never do) while the right is off merrily making laws sending refugees to Rwanda or dumping them in container ships.

This is typical of how uber-lefties argue.

Straight on the defensive "yeah but, yeah but, yeah but, what about the right ...."

 

[pbsmooth]

You Just Haven't Earned It Yet, Golly

 

[Rob Ray]

Come on folks, it’s clear that Spymaster is bored on a Friday afternoon at work and is bringing out his “evil lefties routine”

Yeah fair point.

 

[Spymaster]

Hang the Golly

Last Night I Dreamt That A Golliwog Loved Me

 

[Raheem]

Some Golls Are Bigger Than Others

 

[Voley]

Some Golls Are Bigger Than Others

 

[Voley]

Raheem

Snap!

 

[pbsmooth]

Gah it is a shame what happened to Mozza. They have so many great tunes but I'd just rather not listen to them anymore.

 

[Voley]

Gah it is a shame what happened to Mozza. They have so many great tunes but I'd just rather not listen to them anymore.

Yep. I was listening to the ace live version of I Know It's Over the other day and when it got to the 'It takes guts to be gentle and kind' bit I was thinking 'How the hell did you end up where you are then?' Really weird.

 

[Orang Utan]

I can’t abide any of that safer spaces or white privilege crap.

Why? It’s eminently reasonable

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yep. I was listening to the ace live version of I Know It's Over the other day and when it got to the 'It takes guts to be gentle and kind' bit I was thinking 'How the hell did you end up where you are then?' Really weird.

I never get the phenomenon of folk who fuck off to become immigrants and then start ranting about immigrants in the place they fucked off from.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Why? It’s eminently reasonable

White privilege?

 

[Orang Utan]

White privilege?

The concept of being aware of how much impact it has, yes

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The concept of being aware of how much impact it has, yes

How do you build class solidarity with white people in economically disenfranchised communities if your spiel is that they’re privileged? It’s bonkers.

 

[A380]

I can’t abide any of that safer spaces or white privilege crap.

if you are white you'd have to have a mollusc like level of self awareness and reflection to ignore white privilege.

 

[Riklet]

The concept of being aware of how much impact it has, yes

It's kind of the antithesis of coherent class politics though isnt it?

The idea that "white people" carried out the slave trade and all got rich from it and built nice houses in Notting Hill. Oh yeah. Those kids up the chimneys with no food would have laughed.

edit: It's also the whole guilt thing. That white people should feel bad about the various things done "by white people". I don't feel guilty at all about anything done by the British Empire I feel bad about it and determined to create a better world in the present. I think this kind of guilty sensitivity is what annoys some people at the moment with lefty/liberal movements and politics.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

if you are white you'd have to have a mollusc like level of self awareness and reflection to ignore white privilege.

A middle class position.

 

[Yossarian]

"White privilege" is a polarising term, though I don't think that many people would disagree with statements like "White people can drive around in expensive cars without worrying that the police will stop them because of the colour of their skin."

 

[ElizabethofYork]

Some Golls Are Bigger Than Others

Ben Golly in Platforms

 

[Magnus McGinty]

"White privilege" is a polarising term, though I don't think that many people would disagree with statements like "White people can drive around in expensive cars without worrying that the police will stop them because of the colour of their skin."

I agree that is problematic but it ignores the fact that this also happens to white people in high crime socially disadvantaged areas. Police bully black people but it doesn’t not happen where there aren’t any to bully.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

"White privilege" is a polarising term, though I don't think that many people would disagree with statements like "White people can drive around in expensive cars without worrying that the police will stop them because of the colour of their skin."

Absolutely. Where it doesn't work is people being told they have something called 'white privilege' when their experience of the world is that they've been repeatedly kicked in the face. Everyone, white or black, who is driving around in expensive cars has the most important form of privilege - wealth privilege.

 

[Rob Ray]

Tbh the label "privilege" has been a bit of a failure across the board as an attempt to boil down the complex interlinking of Goods and Bads people experience due to their race/gender/sexuality and how it relates to class. A poor black man from Moss Side isn't "privileged" and obviously will get annoyed at hearing it, even if the intent is to say "well in most ways you're pretty fucked, but at least you're not also being told to get back in the kitchen." And of course a lot of people who actually are privileged have been happy enough to obfuscate the word, while bad actors aiming to disrupt socially progressive ideas will deliberately "misinterpret" whenever they can.

 

[Orang Utan]

How do you build class solidarity with white people in economically disenfranchised communities if your spiel is that they’re privileged? It’s bonkers.

I dunno. Not sure how that means you shouldn’t be aware of your privileges

 

[8ball]

Tbh the label "privilege" has been a bit of a failure across the board as an attempt to boil down the complex interlinking of Goods and Bads people experience due to their race/gender/sexuality and how it relates to class. A poor black man from Moss Side isn't "privileged" and obviously will get annoyed at hearing it, even if the intent is to say "well in most ways you're pretty fucked, but at least you're not also being told to get back in the kitchen." And of course a lot of people who actually are privileged have been happy enough to obfuscate the word, and a lot of bad actors aiming to disrupt socially progressive ideas deliberately "misinterpret" whenever they can.

Time was that one person suffered an injustice that another didn’t. Rights and wrongs. Now, not being beaten up by the police means you’re apparently on the VIP list.

Pretty low horizons all round.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Tbh the label "privilege" has been a bit of a failure across the board as an attempt to boil down the complex interlinking of Goods and Bads people experience due to their race/gender/sexuality and how it relates to class. A poor black man from Moss Side isn't "privileged" and obviously will get annoyed at hearing it, even if the intent is to say "well in most ways you're pretty fucked, but at least you're not also being told to get back in the kitchen." And of course a lot of people who actually are privileged have been happy enough to obfuscate the word.

That's one way it can work. Most commonly, ime, it's something that I think is a misunderstanding of intersectionality, namely a bingo card on which the important thing is to have at least one box ticked off. So if you're a white, het, cis male, you're top of the privilege chart with no place on the intersectionality network except as the bogey-man who needs to check his privilege without any reference whatsoever to his socio-economic class.

 

[Orang Utan]

It's kind of the antithesis of coherent class politics though isnt it?

The idea that "white people" carried out the slave trade and all got rich from it and built nice houses in Notting Hill. Oh yeah. Those kids up the chimneys with no food would have laughed.

edit: It's also the whole guilt thing. That white people should feel bad about the various things done "by white people". I don't feel guilty at all about anything done by the British Empire I feel bad about it and determined to create a better world in the present. I think this kind of guilty sensitivity is what annoys some people at the moment with lefty/liberal movements and politics.

Your understanding of it seems wilfully obtuse

 

[Riklet]

Your understanding of it seems wilfully obtuse

Do you mean more about day to day stuff like getting followed in shops or searched by the police or convinced by juries etc? cos I would regard all of that as racism.

Maybe the privilege term has a different meaning to different people at the moment. But am I 'privileged' in not getting harased in town by the police cos I'm white? I suppose it's the term I don't much like, obviously the social issues are very real and important.

 

[Rob Ray]

That's one way it can work. Most commonly, ime, it's something that I think is a misunderstanding of intersectionality, namely a bingo card on which the important thing is to have at least one box ticked off. So if you're a white, het, cis male, you're top of the privilege chart with no place on the intersectionality network except as the bogey-man who needs to check his privilege without any reference whatsoever to his socio-economic class.

Yeah trouble with anything involving difficult and involved analysis is that (particularly now simplistic loudmouthery is actively encouraged by Our Lord Algorithm) people who haven't gone into much depth of thinking about it, or who spot an opportunity to use it, will pump out mangled self-serving nonsense which rapidly becomes a publicly-understood representation of the general idea. Which is not unique to the left, of course (Alpha Male Wolves blah blah blah).

 

[The39thStep]

Absolutely. Where it doesn't work is people being told they have something called 'white privilege' when their experience of the world is that they've been repeatedly kicked in the face. Everyone, white or black, who is driving around in expensive cars has the most important form of privilege - wealth privilege.

or a lease agreement which will end up with bailiffs repossessing the car