give up anti-fascism?
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butchersapron
Bring back hanging
What things do you do with who, which are not working, which are?
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
I don't think it really helps that much to focus on what an individual does.
The main point is that while the ideas and approach that are being put forward here (and largely by the IWCA before that) are good ones, the fact remains that they aren't being put into practice much. That's just the way it is, and sadly it doesn't look like changing. I can't see anyone having much evidence to suggest otherwise.
The main point is that while the ideas and approach that are being put forward here (and largely by the IWCA before that) are good ones, the fact remains that they aren't being put into practice much. That's just the way it is, and sadly it doesn't look like changing. I can't see anyone having much evidence to suggest otherwise.
So, what do you suggest? We sit and wring our hands and say 'isn't it terrible that more people aren't doing useful things' or get out there and get on with it?
Is the stuff you're doing progressing? Is there anything fun that you can do as part of it? (Community trips and children's cinema events are always good and not a huge amount of work to organise if there are a few of you). Is your seeming disillusionment seeping through? If so, any work you're doing may be counter-productive.
Is the stuff you're doing progressing? Is there anything fun that you can do as part of it? (Community trips and children's cinema events are always good and not a huge amount of work to organise if there are a few of you). Is your seeming disillusionment seeping through? If so, any work you're doing may be counter-productive.
so i just do not get your point .. do you not think we are not aware that things aren't great? some of us are trying to come up with ideas .. please contribute something constructive or stfu ( in the nicest possible way
)Their decline there is very significantly linked to the December 2007 internal problems in which most of their Bradford operation defected, and befor e then with the resignation of Angela Clark their councillor and Warren Bennett, their ex ehad of security who is/was her partner at the time. Basically, they shot themselves in the foot in Keighley
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Well pointed out and also in Oldham where the branch was wrecked by Griffin.The expulsions and the defections have had an effect in places this has broadly been balanced by the cadre building programme that they have run.
UKIP will for a period continue to be a safe vote for those who think BNP but won't vote cos of the Nazi tag but essentially they are more or less a protest vote magnet with little on the ground.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
You can say stfu (I think I know what that means), but I'm just pointing out a reality. It might not be a helpful reality in moving things forward but it's still there.
I'm not disillusioned and I do a lot of local work myself. But it's not about what an individual does. By all means keep on doing what you're doing, it sounds constructive.
But as the approaches we are talking about don't seem to be getting anywhere, and few people are taking them up, then at what point do we say that this approach hasn't worked either? Surely at some point we need growing results? The IWCA article I've criticised a bit, is right from that point of view. Otherwise aren't we just keeping on with an approach that isn't working, a bit like the UAF?
Agree about UKIP, they will fold sooner rather than later, with nothing on the ground to speak of. There is more chance the Tories moving to the right will mop up the soft BNP vote.
I'm not disillusioned and I do a lot of local work myself. But it's not about what an individual does. By all means keep on doing what you're doing, it sounds constructive.
But as the approaches we are talking about don't seem to be getting anywhere, and few people are taking them up, then at what point do we say that this approach hasn't worked either? Surely at some point we need growing results? The IWCA article I've criticised a bit, is right from that point of view. Otherwise aren't we just keeping on with an approach that isn't working, a bit like the UAF?
Agree about UKIP, they will fold sooner rather than later, with nothing on the ground to speak of. There is more chance the Tories moving to the right will mop up the soft BNP vote.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Where does action proceed from if not from an individual seeking out like-minded individuals?
Of course it's important to focus on what an individual does. It gives us a window onto the fundamental building block of any struggle: a person's hopes and dreams, needs and wants.
One_Stop_Shop
Well-Known Member
Searchlight are a waste of space.
In a sense you are right about individuals. But what I mean is that whatever I do, whether I'm a do nothing useless bastard or the best activist on the planet doesn't really have much impact on whether the approaches being discussed here will work or not.
In a sense you are right about individuals. But what I mean is that whatever I do, whether I'm a do nothing useless bastard or the best activist on the planet doesn't really have much impact on whether the approaches being discussed here will work or not.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
There's nothing in that statement that I can disagree with.
Maybe not, but the only way we can find out whether they work is by trying them, and that's best done at a local level and built on from there.
LOL. UKIP aint going to fold. They will get stronger and stronger.
You lefties could learn a lot from them in terms of how to make a real attempt at breaking the monopoly on political power in this country as opposed to just pissing in the wind.
They're useful really as they split the far right vote, and attract the sort of people who otherwise might vote BNP but aren't really fascists.
audiotech
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Not yet, subscribers get first look.
yes, Searchlight / HnH / Nick Lowles are working with Hackney TUC ( or the 2 people active in that) to try to use Hackney as an experiment to see if it is possible to use anti-fascism as a slingshot to create a more general community network .. they specifically used american organising models for the euros, got over 100 people active in distributing tens of thousends of leaflets and HnH papers .. but as a specifcially anti BNP camapign that had active tories libdems and CPers active in it is see NO hope for what they are trying to do
searchlight seem to have lots of money and paid for a worker during the elections and there is a suggestion they may provide a longer term paid worker
btw BNP got 2.2.% in hackney .. they did no work here at all
.. no , they are purely a single issue electoral campaign that do not do any constructive work locally .. oh ok yes
some sections of the left would like thatbutchersapron
Bring back hanging
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It is.
audiotech
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Hackney has a long anti-fascist tradition though.
Searchlight have alway's been open about building a broad based anti-fascist movement. They have built links, amongst others, with Jewish and Muslim community groups, whose individuals have party affiliations and none. They donate money too.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
Precisely. In fact the BNP have largely given up on inner London altogether. Picking Hackney is like the way the ANL who bottled working on white working class estates would leaflet Asian neighbourhoods with 'Don't Vote BNP!' edicts instead.
audiotech
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I leafleted a number of white working class estates with the ANL. The BNP didn't exist then and the leaflets said 'Never Again!'.
audiotech
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A springboard to other areas of outer London is the thinking.
but it is flawed thinking .. they bring together tories, Cpers, LibDems, Labour loyalists and LRC dissidenst and they all get along fighting the nasty BNP .. the moment they try to do anything else it will fall down
there is a really simple model readily available .. that of dealing with the community issues .. the BNP simply does not thrive where there are strong community campaigns, it thrives in the absence of those .. if you don't like the IWCA label fine whatever but the model is simple and it works
audiotech
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History tells us that a broad based anti-fascist campaign, from Cable Street to Lewisham, rooted in the community does work. Hackney is a prime example of that.
The 'really simple model readily available' you refer to has been tested in a few areas and judging it's success on the BNP 'failing to thrive' in those areas where it exists - Oxford and Hackney in this case - fails to take into account other reasons why the BNP haven't thrived there. Making such an assessment also ignores many other areas where there is no 'simple model' and yet the BNP haven't thrived in these areas either?
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