G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[Wilf]

I was confused at first but The Guardian says it got it's footage from a publicist on behalf of an IT Worker so I'm assuming it's different people

Either way, the '6.09' is now seen to be wrong (along with the sun's idea that he was hanging around for 30+ minutes at this point). Key thing is that the original timeline the Guardian had an interactive guide on from soon after the death, remains unchallenged.

 

[GoneCoastal]

It's difficult to say, I've just been trying to work that out. Either it's a different IT worker or Ross Hardy's a lying fucker

Yes, or the clock was an hour out on his camera (GMT/BST not adjusted ? We've mentioned that as a poss before iirc ?)

 

[_pH_]

Or the clock was an hour out on his camera

It wasn't the timings I was thinking of, that can be explained by the BST/GMT thing, it's more the statements

IT worker in grauniad says:

The police van nudged the back of his legs – it was nothing hard, he wasn't knocked off balance or anything like that," he said. "He wasn't saying or doing anything wrong. He was doing no different to what we were doing – he was just stood on the side

IT worker in Scum says:

It just nudged him gently but Tomlinson still didn’t get out of the way. They tried nudging him again. When that didn’t work four riot police moved in and dragged him on to the pavement. The van moved past but Tomlinson stuck around for at least another half an hour. He certainly wasn’t on his way home. He had no intention of going anywhere.

totally different accounts can't be the same eyewitness surely?

 

[GoneCoastal]

It wasn't the timings I was thinking of, that can be explained by the BST/GMT thing, it's more the statements

IT worker in grauniad says:



IT worker in Scum says:



totally different accounts can't be the same eyewitness surely?

Gotcha, yes & agreed - the accounts are very different aren't they. I wonder if the other people in the new set of pictures have been identified or have come forward as witnesses ? That'd help for sure

 

[Citizen66]

It just nudged him gently but Tomlinson still didn’t get out of the way. They tried nudging him again. When that didn’t work four riot police moved in and dragged him on to the pavement. The van moved past but Tomlinson stuck around for at least another half an hour. He certainly wasn’t on his way home. He had no intention of going anywhere.

My reactionary colleague brought this up today and I reminded him that he had every right to be wherever the fuck he wants.

 

[Wilf]

It wasn't the timings I was thinking of, that can be explained by the BST/GMT thing, it's more the statements

IT worker in grauniad says:



IT worker in Scum says:



totally different accounts can't be the same eyewitness surely?

Probably a different person, though just could be the same one pissed off the way his words had been massaged. I posted something a while back about the Sun's story having a series of phrases that sounded like answers to prompts that had been turned into statements - "Did he look like he was on his way home to you - or was he HANGING AROUND AND LOOKING DRUNK"; "how long would you say he was hanging around - OVER HALF AN HOUR?"

E2a:.. and this still doesn't seem to be the same incident as the one timed at 7.15 when he was reported to have been battoned whilst on the floor - so there look to be at least 3 lots of contact (the one filmed here, 7.15 and the youtube filmed one).

 

[shaman75]

3 incidents with police in 20 minutes.

And in the 2-3 hours afterwards, they only managed to remember the bit where a plastic bottle landed near them.

 

[Wilf]

if there were 3 'contacts' it begs a further question about the number of officers who should have come forward and identified themselves. Can't quite remember what Hardwick said on this, but I think he said 4 or 5 had come forward (?).

Well, there was a driver here + 2 on the pavement; however many were involved in incident 2 - and the 4/5 in a line when the hitter goes for him in incident 3, plus the Inspector seen soon after the final attack. At least 10?

 

[DaveCinzano]

There were at least 18 police officers in the direct vicinity of the 'American tourist' videoed assault on Tomlinson at the mouth of Royal Exchange Buildings facing Cornhill, all of them at one point or another in sight of either or both the baton strike and the two-handed shove.

• Five City of London dog handlers also seen in the dog attack footage and elsewhere (A712, CP788 and three others);
• At least five officers wearing blue-flashed hi-vis jackets (possible FIT cops including, it is suspected, Steve Discombe CO2558 and Alan Palfrey EK217);
• Three Level 2 cops in riot gear;
• One suspected City of London traffic cop;
• One City of London cop in riot gear (204);
• Two others of unknown vintage;
• And the TSG officer who actually assaulted Ian Tomlinson.

This tally does not include those to the left or right or behind the 'American tourist' filming the incident (who can be seen in Channel 4 News' 'broken camera' footage from its vantage point further back) or on Cornhill, or those officers further back on Threadneedle Street, who can be seen in the background of the footage by vans.

 

[Wilf]

From their website, the merely say 'several' have come forward:

08 April 2009Update on Ian Tomlinson investigation
The IPCC can confirm that we now have the details of the Metropolitan Police officer who we believe appears in the footage we recovered last night, and who appears to make contact with Ian Tomlinson.

IPCC Commissioner and deputy Chair Deborah Glass said "We are pleased that we now have what appears to be valuable information relating to this incident. Several police officers, including the officer himself have come forward. It is our intention to interview this officer as soon as possible".


- ENDS -


Contact: IPCC Press Office on 0207 166 3130/3026/3932 or, out of hours - 07717 851 157

'Several' is a tricky word but I'm guessing its less than 18 (or at least its not that 18 officers). Mind, the more pictures come out, the more they will be under pressure from their federation reps to make a strategic 'voluntary statement'. Their difficulty will be guessing whether the flow of pictures and videos has stopped, allowing them to make a damage limitation statement - or whether something else will emerge from a camera phone that blows their story apart.

 

[shaman75]

There were loads of cameras.

There must be much more footage than we have seen.

 

[shaman75]

 

[Wilf]

"Scooby and Shaggy have a falling out".

A thousand pardons, couldn't resist.

[gets coat]

 

[FridgeMagnet]

He must have been provoking the dog in some way.

 

[shaman75]

It's from the video that is now on the guardian.

I don't think he provokes it, but he doesn't really move away.

Here's the original

 

[_pH_]

he's made of sausages

 

[Fictionist]

Nah, made of hotdog......

 

[_pH_]

srs post: just watched that vid: wtf? first they drag some guy away who doesn't appear to be doing anything, then shaggy gets attacked by the dog. again, don't quite know what he'd been doing, but the response of the dog handler doesn't seem very proportionate regardless!

 

[shaman75]

Although it looks like he was moving away after a nip from the first one, when the second copper decided his dog was hungry too.

Might have been worse, but the fist copper lost his hat and had to go back and get it.

 

[shaman75]

srs post: just watched that vid: wtf? first they drag some guy away who doesn't appear to be doing anything, then shaggy gets attacked by the dog. again, don't quite know what he'd been doing, but the response of the dog handler doesn't seem very proportionate regardless!

and then they all proceed into the alley, followed by a charge of riot police, at about the time that ian tomlinson was said to have been attacked, before emerging out the other end and pushing him over. may even have been these dog handlers for all i know.

 

[DaveCinzano]

As I mentioned earlier, yes, the same group of City of London dog handlers as in the dog attack footage above. The beginning of the 'American tourist' footage shows two of the dog handlers coming up behind Ian Tomlinson from either side. They do not appear to be offering strokes.

The dog handler in the above picture (with the large harness around his trunk) is slightly further away, though he walks over as Ian Tomlinson is on the ground then helped up by civilians.

As Ian Tomlinson staggers off in the 'last picture alive', he clearly passes by two more dog handlers.

 

[ymu]

and then they all proceed into the alley, followed by a charge of riot police, at about the time that ian tomlinson was said to have been attacked, before emerging out the other end and pushing him over. may even have been these dog handlers for all i know.

It looks a lot like it is. It's hard to tell Alsatians apart, but in the Tomlinson video there is one that has a lot of lighter brown fur towards the front, two with a lot on their bellies (one more than the other) and one that is all black. That's consistent with the dogs seen in the 3rd video here. The number of dogs and mix of police uniforms - blue flashes, no hi-vis, etc - are similar also.

At 52 seconds in the Tomlinson assault video (4th one down), there's a copper with a dog that both match the picture above (from the dog attack).

 

[weepiper]

Sky News now reporting that the 2nd post mortem shows he died of an abdominal haemhorrage

 

[STFC]

Sky News now reporting that the 2nd post mortem shows he died of an abdominal haemhorrage

Yep, breaking news on BBC too. Interesting...

 

[DotCommunist]

So 'heart attack' was another fucking lie then.

 

[Open Sauce]

BBC radio reports an officer has been questioned under caution for the offence of man slaughter

 

[butchersapron]

BBC radio reports an officer has been questioned under caution for the offence of man slaughter

Shut up.

 

[editor]

Sky News now reporting that the 2nd post mortem shows he died of an abdominal haemhorrage

Little by little the police lies are coming unstuck.

G20 may well prove to one of the most important events in protest and policing in the UK.

 

[tarannau]

So 'heart attack' was another fucking lie then.

Where do they get these quick and careless coroners from?

 

[winjer]

Shut up.

"The IPCC has confirmed a Metropolitan police officer has been interviewed under caution for the offence of manslaughter in relation to the death."

http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/crime/g20-protestor-died--abdominal-haemorrhage--$1288688.htm