F1 2019
- Thread starter 1%er
- Start date
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
It is the most hapless, ungainly, un-alike model ever created in this or any other universe.
Can't argue with that but I still want it.
fuck me a December race!
spitfire
Walty McWaltface
55/45 I'd say. Racing incident would have been my call but even Lewis says it was his fault.
He has nothing to lose
Indeliblelink
\......👁&👁......./
It was a pretty similar incident to one they gave Danny Ric a 5sec penalty for earlier in the race.
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
Ferrari lol 
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
I just watched the excellent short highlights package on YouTube and struck by how open next year’s championship might be. This will be the first time in what, 5 years that we go into a season without a clear margin between the Mercedes engine and the others. Only Renault seems to be lagging behind now, because if you look at the way the Ferrari and Honda cars pulled down the straight in Brazil compared to the Merc works team, it does appear they have either parity or an advantage versus Mercedes.
I wouldn’t be betting against a Max Verstappen championship win next year, although under no circumstances should my opinion be taken seriously as I put money on Vettel at the start of this season!
I wouldn’t be betting against a Max Verstappen championship win next year, although under no circumstances should my opinion be taken seriously as I put money on Vettel at the start of this season!
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
I checked the Gazetta dello Sport website earlier, using google translate, to see how the Italian press were reporting it. Was all a lot more measured and less inflammatory than I expected, no signs of them baying for Vettel’s blood.
The main thing I took from it was they said these last races this year are about deciding who will be backed as Ferrari no. 1 next year, which may explain somewhat Vettel’s desperate Dan move to put manners on LeClerc.
The main thing I took from it was they said these last races this year are about deciding who will be backed as Ferrari no. 1 next year, which may explain somewhat Vettel’s desperate Dan move to put manners on LeClerc.
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1%er
Well-Known Member
Both drivers have been told to report to Maranello later this week and I expect they will be read the riot act. While the Italian press is giving responsibility to both drivers for the accident, it seems a majority of Ferrari fans in Italy have no doubt it’s all Vettel’s fault.Must be some heated talks going on at Ferrari this morning
On Twitter the hashtag #vettelout was becoming very popular for Ferrari fans. A lot are tired and have had enough. They want to see the German leaving the team at the end of season. This, for them, is the last of a long series of mistakes from Sebastian Vettel. There is no doubt in their mind. Charles Leclerc is faster and is better than him. The accident was only because of Vettel and the resulting images leaves them with no doubt.
The press seem to blame both drivers;
Gazzetta dello Sport
The stupidity
We should have expected that sooner or later something like that could happen. The incident between Vettel and Leclerc is the direct consequence of what happened in the last 6-7 races. It started in Monza where Leclerc didn’t help Vettel in the qualifying and it continued in Russia where Vettel didn’t respect the order to let Leclerc pass. But blaming Ferrari is not correct, the team can set rules and orders, but if you have two alpha drivers on your team then this is what is going to happen.
Tuttosport
Disaster Ferrari: it’s bumper cars
Only five laps to the end, Vettel and Leclerc crashed in each other. This is a disaster that you could see coming and this is an accident that will lead to big discussions in Maranello. Both drivers will meet there to discuss the situation in deep detail.
Corriere dello Sport
Ferrari explode
Has the rivalry between Leclerc and Vettel reached its maximum? The two Ferrari drivers fighting for the fourth position had a collision that eliminated both drivers. Binotto is furious.
Image shattered
My old lady is always saying "that young Albon is a very polite and respectful young man", I played her this over breakfast this morning and the shock on her face was great.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
I think it appears worse than it really is.
it was not like be massively swerved into Charles line, he just moved over to stop him having the better line into the corner.
and leclerc choose not to yield in the slightest as he wants to be team number one
early in the race leclerc was a lot more aggressive in elbowing his way past saint's. who had to dive out of the way to avoid a collision
it was not like be massively swerved into Charles line, he just moved over to stop him having the better line into the corner.
and leclerc choose not to yield in the slightest as he wants to be team number one
early in the race leclerc was a lot more aggressive in elbowing his way past saint's. who had to dive out of the way to avoid a collision
#wengerout
Cheeky fuckerHahaha @ Albon
1%er
Well-Known Member
FIA seize parts of Ferrari fuel system
The Ferrari engine controversy is refusing to die down with the FIA reportedly seizing “parts of the fuel system” from the SF90 as well as a customer. Following a string of pole positions after the summer break, Ferrari’s rivals wrote to the FIA asking for clarification regarding the power units. Red Bull set out three scenarios for the FIA, all of which were declared illegal.
The FIA then issued a Technical Directive on the matter, highlighting Article 5.10.5 which states that “any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel after the measurement point is prohibited.” A second TD was furnished just over a week later confirming that flammable liquid in the engine’s cooling system may not be used for combustion.
Ferrari have not been on pole since the first TD. Questions about their power unit, though, are not dying down.
According to Auto Motor und Sport journalist Tobi Grüner, following the Brazilian Grand Prix the FIA seized parts of the SF90’s fuel system as well as “one Ferrari customer and one Non-Ferrari. A thorough investigation of the parts will be conducted in the FIA laboratories.”
Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff says it would amount to cheating if any team is found playing around with the fuel flow. “If somebody was doing what the technical directive clarified, it would have been foul play and the way the technical directive was formulated it was a severe breach of regulations, so there is not even any talk about any grey areas.” he told reporters.
Youngest ever podium
Last weekends thrilling Brazilian GP saw an 11 year old record broken, marking a key moment in the sports history as youth continue to take over, the youngest-ever podium. In a sign the times are changing, with teams now gambling on youth, three of the youngest drivers on the grid filled the top three positions at Interlagos, all drivers aged 25 or less. Brazil race winner Max Verstappen holds and may forever hold the gong as Formula 1’s youngest-ever race-winner when he crossed the line at Barcelona in 2016 as an 18-year-old. The Dutchman who claimed an eighth career win holds numerous other ‘youngest’ records, and is now top of the tree when it comes to the youngest-ever podium.
The previous record was set back in 2008 at a soggy Monza when Sebastian Vettel dominated a rain-affected Italian Grand Prix to register Toro Rosso’s first and to date, only win. Vettel has added 53 wins and four world titles since, and that day, shared the podium with Heikki Kovalainen (McLaren) and Robert Kubica (BMW Sauber). The trio combined for an average age of 23 years, 11 months and 16 days. Last weekend’s podium of winner Verstappen, Toro Rosso’s Pierre Gasly and McLaren’s Carlos Sainz broke new ground with an average age of 23 years, eight months and 23 days.
The 2008 record would have remained had third-placed man and relative old-timer at 34 Lewis Hamilton not been relegated to seventh for an incident with Alex Albon. Sainz was promoted to the rostrum, taking his first F1 podium and McLaren’s first for over five years. It was also Gasly’s maiden podium, which he regarded as the “best day of my life”. One record that will almost certainly never be broken is the oldest-ever podium, set at the 1950 Swiss Grand Prix. That day, Nino Farina, Luigi Fagioli and Louis Rosier put down an average age of 46 years, eight months and 20 days. To put that into perspective, that is over six years older than Kimi Raikkonen, who turned 40 last month, and is the oldest current driver on the grid.
This season also featured what is now the third-youngest podium after 22-year-old Verstappen defeated 22-year-old Charles Leclerc to the win in Austria back in June. Valtteri Bottas, who finished third at the Red Bull Ring, was two months out from his 30th birthday, and could quietly revel in being a twenty-something alongside the embryos with him on the podium. Of the 20 drivers on the grid, 12 were born after 1990, Sergio Perez (1990), Kevin Magnussen (1992), Antonio Giovinazzi (1993) Daniil Kvyat and Carlos Sainz (1994), Gasly and Albon (1996), Verstappen and Leclerc (1997), and Lance Stroll and George Russell (1998), with Lando Norris freshly 20 (1999). Raikkonen is the outlier of the granddads (1979), ahead of Kubica (1984), Hamilton (1985), Romain Grosjean (1986), Vettel and Nico Hulkenberg (1987) and Daniel Ricciardo and Bottas (1989).
Add Jerez to the list
The list of "new" tracks just keeps getting longer and longer, this week there is news that Jerez is wanting back on the grid from 2021.
Jerez could become the next Spanish GP host. For 2020, Spain is only remaining on the calendar because Barcelona concluded eleventh-hour negotiations for a single-year deal that involved pushing out the calendar to an unprecedented 22 races.
But for 2021, there could be a change of venues. Citing local sources, newspapers El Mundo Deportivo and Marca claim that Jerez which was the scene of the climactic finale of the 1997 season is in talks with Liberty Media about a three-year deal for 2021-2023. Reportedly, an agreement in principle may already have been signed for a $25 million annual fee, payable by the regional government Junta de Andalucia.
The news reportedly follows a meeting in London between Spanish officials and Chase Carey. Jerez de la Frontera mayor Mamen Sanchez said she regrets that the information has leaked into the public. "The council has been working for two years so that Formula 1 returns to Jerez," she told Diario de Jerez newspaper. "I want to issue a reminder that we have a confidentiality agreement and I hope and wish that any ambition to tell the news does not frustrate the negotiations," Sanchez added.
The list of new venues since Liberty Media took over control of F1 now looks like this according to the post-it note on my computer;
Tunisia, USA (Miami, New York, Milwaukee, New Jersey, Las Vegas, Daytona, California, Laguna Seca, Sonoma Raceway), Portugal Macau, Norway, Denmark, UK central London, Stratford and Cadrdiff (Silverstone), Korea, Turkey, Soth Africa, Argentina, Netherlands (Zandvoort, Assen), Saudi Arabia, Rio, Moroco, Angola, St Petersburg, Jerez.
The Ferrari engine controversy is refusing to die down with the FIA reportedly seizing “parts of the fuel system” from the SF90 as well as a customer. Following a string of pole positions after the summer break, Ferrari’s rivals wrote to the FIA asking for clarification regarding the power units. Red Bull set out three scenarios for the FIA, all of which were declared illegal.
The FIA then issued a Technical Directive on the matter, highlighting Article 5.10.5 which states that “any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel after the measurement point is prohibited.” A second TD was furnished just over a week later confirming that flammable liquid in the engine’s cooling system may not be used for combustion.
Ferrari have not been on pole since the first TD. Questions about their power unit, though, are not dying down.
According to Auto Motor und Sport journalist Tobi Grüner, following the Brazilian Grand Prix the FIA seized parts of the SF90’s fuel system as well as “one Ferrari customer and one Non-Ferrari. A thorough investigation of the parts will be conducted in the FIA laboratories.”
Mercedes motorsport boss Toto Wolff says it would amount to cheating if any team is found playing around with the fuel flow. “If somebody was doing what the technical directive clarified, it would have been foul play and the way the technical directive was formulated it was a severe breach of regulations, so there is not even any talk about any grey areas.” he told reporters.
Youngest ever podium
Last weekends thrilling Brazilian GP saw an 11 year old record broken, marking a key moment in the sports history as youth continue to take over, the youngest-ever podium. In a sign the times are changing, with teams now gambling on youth, three of the youngest drivers on the grid filled the top three positions at Interlagos, all drivers aged 25 or less. Brazil race winner Max Verstappen holds and may forever hold the gong as Formula 1’s youngest-ever race-winner when he crossed the line at Barcelona in 2016 as an 18-year-old. The Dutchman who claimed an eighth career win holds numerous other ‘youngest’ records, and is now top of the tree when it comes to the youngest-ever podium.
The previous record was set back in 2008 at a soggy Monza when Sebastian Vettel dominated a rain-affected Italian Grand Prix to register Toro Rosso’s first and to date, only win. Vettel has added 53 wins and four world titles since, and that day, shared the podium with Heikki Kovalainen (McLaren) and Robert Kubica (BMW Sauber). The trio combined for an average age of 23 years, 11 months and 16 days. Last weekend’s podium of winner Verstappen, Toro Rosso’s Pierre Gasly and McLaren’s Carlos Sainz broke new ground with an average age of 23 years, eight months and 23 days.
The 2008 record would have remained had third-placed man and relative old-timer at 34 Lewis Hamilton not been relegated to seventh for an incident with Alex Albon. Sainz was promoted to the rostrum, taking his first F1 podium and McLaren’s first for over five years. It was also Gasly’s maiden podium, which he regarded as the “best day of my life”. One record that will almost certainly never be broken is the oldest-ever podium, set at the 1950 Swiss Grand Prix. That day, Nino Farina, Luigi Fagioli and Louis Rosier put down an average age of 46 years, eight months and 20 days. To put that into perspective, that is over six years older than Kimi Raikkonen, who turned 40 last month, and is the oldest current driver on the grid.
This season also featured what is now the third-youngest podium after 22-year-old Verstappen defeated 22-year-old Charles Leclerc to the win in Austria back in June. Valtteri Bottas, who finished third at the Red Bull Ring, was two months out from his 30th birthday, and could quietly revel in being a twenty-something alongside the embryos with him on the podium. Of the 20 drivers on the grid, 12 were born after 1990, Sergio Perez (1990), Kevin Magnussen (1992), Antonio Giovinazzi (1993) Daniil Kvyat and Carlos Sainz (1994), Gasly and Albon (1996), Verstappen and Leclerc (1997), and Lance Stroll and George Russell (1998), with Lando Norris freshly 20 (1999). Raikkonen is the outlier of the granddads (1979), ahead of Kubica (1984), Hamilton (1985), Romain Grosjean (1986), Vettel and Nico Hulkenberg (1987) and Daniel Ricciardo and Bottas (1989).
Add Jerez to the list
The list of "new" tracks just keeps getting longer and longer, this week there is news that Jerez is wanting back on the grid from 2021.
Jerez could become the next Spanish GP host. For 2020, Spain is only remaining on the calendar because Barcelona concluded eleventh-hour negotiations for a single-year deal that involved pushing out the calendar to an unprecedented 22 races.
But for 2021, there could be a change of venues. Citing local sources, newspapers El Mundo Deportivo and Marca claim that Jerez which was the scene of the climactic finale of the 1997 season is in talks with Liberty Media about a three-year deal for 2021-2023. Reportedly, an agreement in principle may already have been signed for a $25 million annual fee, payable by the regional government Junta de Andalucia.
The news reportedly follows a meeting in London between Spanish officials and Chase Carey. Jerez de la Frontera mayor Mamen Sanchez said she regrets that the information has leaked into the public. "The council has been working for two years so that Formula 1 returns to Jerez," she told Diario de Jerez newspaper. "I want to issue a reminder that we have a confidentiality agreement and I hope and wish that any ambition to tell the news does not frustrate the negotiations," Sanchez added.
The list of new venues since Liberty Media took over control of F1 now looks like this according to the post-it note on my computer;
Tunisia, USA (Miami, New York, Milwaukee, New Jersey, Las Vegas, Daytona, California, Laguna Seca, Sonoma Raceway), Portugal Macau, Norway, Denmark, UK central London, Stratford and Cadrdiff (Silverstone), Korea, Turkey, Soth Africa, Argentina, Netherlands (Zandvoort, Assen), Saudi Arabia, Rio, Moroco, Angola, St Petersburg, Jerez.
The fact that the FIA have seized them makes me think there is something here. Nobody at the FIA wants to embarrass or upset Ferrari so they must have had very strong evidence to go ahead.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Well, yes. Ferrari has long had an oily hand cupped round the FIA's softly-bagged cullions.
I wondered at first why they took one Ferrari system, one Ferrari-customer system, and one non-Ferrari system.
When the fog of senility lifted, it became clear the FIA wants to see if it's a Ferrari engine problem, a Ferrari team problem, and different enough from other teams to be a problem in the first place.
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
So if I understood correctly, there’s a suspicion that there may be some storage of fuel post the measurement device, so the engine can run for a limited time at higher than the measured fuel flow? Like a flexible expanding fuel line which acts as a balloon to store a bit more fuel then gets emptied down the straights?
It would be surprising if Ferrari have done this, because they must have known that with GPS traces, etc, the other teams would be able to see that something was wrong.
It would be surprising if Ferrari have done this, because they must have known that with GPS traces, etc, the other teams would be able to see that something was wrong.
1%er
Well-Known Member
I think what Red Bull pointed out to the FIA is, if you have some electrical device close to the fuel flow meter it can interfere with the meter and thus allow a faster fuel flow for a short time when the "electrical device is active". this is possible I believe as in some countries around the world people use a device attached to their electric meter in the home to effect the reading by slowing down the meter to get a lower reading (I think this has increased in the Uk since the introduction of the "smart-meter" I think you can read about this sort of thing on some doggy forums
).They also believe that it is possible that there could be the illicit use of flammable liquid in an engine's cooling system that somehow finds its way into the combustion chamber, like when teams were using oil to aid combustion, it could also be that the fuel return line was reentering the system ahead of the fuel flow meter and not returning to the tank, as it should do and that this extra fuel could be used to increase the power of the ICE.
I'd be very surprised if Ferrari were using some kind of electrical device to interfere with the fuel flow meter, as this would clearly have had to be designed for that reason only and would be clear cheating.
I don't know enough about the rules to know if adding a combustible liquid to the cooling system (that then finds it way into the combustion chamber) or returning the excess fuel into the system rather then returning it to the tank are prohibited in the sporting regulations or its just Ferrari testing the rules, I'd be surprised if there were grey areas around this but we will soon find out I'm sure. It could be that when the FIA made the ruling about adding oil to the fuel system, some smart-arse at Ferrari said we can't add oil but we may be able to do "this or that' as they haven't said we can't, that is how F1 teams work after all
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1%er
Well-Known Member
F1 has issued a third technical directive
For the third time since the US Grand Prix, the FIA has issued a technical directive aimed at preventing abuse of F1's fuel-flow rules in the future. An inquiry from Red Bull Racing about a ploy that could potentially allow an engine to circumvent fuel-flow rules was sent to F1's governing body ahead of the US Grand Prix.
The FIA's response and clarification made clear an exploitation of the ploy which Ferrari was suspected of using would constitute a breach of the rulebook. The FIA then published a second TD ahead of the Brazilian Grand Prix, addressing the potential illicit use of flammable liquid in an engine's cooling system and reminding teams about the illegal practice of using oil for fuel in a unit's combustion chambers.
On Wednesday, a third TD was released by the FIA, detailing the need for teams to add a second FIA-controlled fuel-flow sensor into an engine's fuel tank for 2020. The directive comes after story's in the press revealed earlier this week the initiation of an investigation by the FIA into Ferrari's fuel system, with specific components reportedly being taken for analysis at Interlagos, along with elements from a Ferrari customer team and a non-Ferrari power outfit.
It's unknown if Wednesday's technical directive was published as a result of the FIA's latest investigation, but F1's governing body is obviously determined to tighten the regs and strictly enforce the restricted 100kg/h fuel-flow rate, with the law making clear that "any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel after the measurement point is prohibited".
The FIA will add a 2nd fuel flow meter for next season, so all cars will have 2 meters not just the one they currently have at the fuel tank end of the system, so they will take two reading so teams can't do anything that bypasses the "tank meter".
Red Bull zero gravity pit stop
For the third time since the US Grand Prix, the FIA has issued a technical directive aimed at preventing abuse of F1's fuel-flow rules in the future. An inquiry from Red Bull Racing about a ploy that could potentially allow an engine to circumvent fuel-flow rules was sent to F1's governing body ahead of the US Grand Prix.
The FIA's response and clarification made clear an exploitation of the ploy which Ferrari was suspected of using would constitute a breach of the rulebook. The FIA then published a second TD ahead of the Brazilian Grand Prix, addressing the potential illicit use of flammable liquid in an engine's cooling system and reminding teams about the illegal practice of using oil for fuel in a unit's combustion chambers.
On Wednesday, a third TD was released by the FIA, detailing the need for teams to add a second FIA-controlled fuel-flow sensor into an engine's fuel tank for 2020. The directive comes after story's in the press revealed earlier this week the initiation of an investigation by the FIA into Ferrari's fuel system, with specific components reportedly being taken for analysis at Interlagos, along with elements from a Ferrari customer team and a non-Ferrari power outfit.
It's unknown if Wednesday's technical directive was published as a result of the FIA's latest investigation, but F1's governing body is obviously determined to tighten the regs and strictly enforce the restricted 100kg/h fuel-flow rate, with the law making clear that "any device, system or procedure the purpose and/or effect of which is to increase the flow rate or to store and recycle fuel after the measurement point is prohibited".
The FIA will add a 2nd fuel flow meter for next season, so all cars will have 2 meters not just the one they currently have at the fuel tank end of the system, so they will take two reading so teams can't do anything that bypasses the "tank meter".
Red Bull zero gravity pit stop
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
I think what Red Bull pointed out to the FIA is, if you have some electrical device close to the fuel flow meter it can interfere with the meter and thus allow a faster fuel flow for a short time when the "electrical device is active". this is possible I believe as in some countries around the world people use a device attached to their electric meter in the home to effect the reading by slowing down the meter to get a lower reading (I think this has increased in the Uk since the introduction of the "smart-meter" I think you can read about this sort of thing on some doggy forums
They also believe that it is possible that there could be the illicit use of flammable liquid in an engine's cooling system that somehow finds its way into the combustion chamber, like when teams were using oil to aid combustion, it could also be that the fuel return line was reentering the system ahead of the fuel flow meter and not returning to the tank, as it should do and that this extra fuel could be used to increase the power of the ICE.
I'd be very surprised if Ferrari were using some kind of electrical device to interfere with the fuel flow meter, as this would clearly have had to be designed for that reason only and would be clear cheating.
I don't know enough about the rules to know if adding a combustible liquid to the cooling system (that then finds it way into the combustion chamber) or returning the excess fuel into the system rather then returning it to the tank are prohibited in the sporting regulations or its just Ferrari testing the rules, I'd be surprised if there were grey areas around this but we will soon find out I'm sure. It could be that when the FIA made the ruling about adding oil to the fuel system, some smart-arse at Ferrari said we can't add oil but we may be able to do "this or that' as they haven't said we can't, that is how F1 teams work after all
Sorry didn’t notice your reply until now. I think you’re spot on, and sadly these things are now getting so complex it must be almost impossible (or in practice actually impossible) for the FIA to ensure teams aren’t cheating. Putting something electrical close next to the fuel flow meter could definitely happen “by accident” due to the packaging requirements of needing to get the whole PU into the tightest possible space, and if that has the knock on effect of reducing the reading during brief squirts of excess fuel flow, then happy days! I’m sure Merc will be casting worried glances towards Honda’s performance at São Paulo too and wondering how they’ve improved performance so rapidly this season.
MrCurry
right after this urgent rest
Still half asleep this morning when I read this headline:
RaceFans Round-up: 'Can't make a racehorse from a donkey' - Grosjean
My brain jumped to the conclusion it was a quote from Steiner about Grosjean...!
RaceFans Round-up: 'Can't make a racehorse from a donkey' - Grosjean
My brain jumped to the conclusion it was a quote from Steiner about Grosjean...!
