F1 2017
- Thread starter spitfire
- Start date
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Ted's Notebook:
Honda might sue McLaren if they "break" the contract.
They might seek some kind of compensation, but Honda won't want the catalogue of misery and non-performance paraded before a court, with evidence-in-chief supplied by Alonso.
edit: scooped by ^^^
Honda might sue McLaren if they "break" the contract.
They might seek some kind of compensation, but Honda won't want the catalogue of misery and non-performance paraded before a court, with evidence-in-chief supplied by Alonso.
edit: scooped by ^^^
1%er
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure it would be bad for Honda, I think they would be able to put their case forward and say "look it wasn't all out fault, McLarean did this and didn't do that etc."Ted's Notebook:
Honda might sue McLaren if they "break" the contract.
They might seek some kind of compensation, but Honda won't want the catalogue of misery and non-performance paraded before a court, with evidence-in-chief supplied by Alonso.
edit: scooped by ^^^
E2A for sure any legal action would involve $100's of millions with the money they have paid McLarean and the cost of development
1%er
Well-Known Member
Mixed signals coming from Honda
The Japanese press are reporting that the Board of Honda are split over if they will stay in F1 or not. Mr. Yago Takahiro, (Honda’s President) has called a full board meeting this week so the company can decide on all the options available. It seems the board want to remain with McLaren and that is the only deal they will accept. One press report said this "Yamamoto (Honda's motorsport manager) has also revealed to the Japanese media that from his opinion Honda won’t leave F1. Furthermore he confirms that other teams want to race with Honda’s Power Unit but the Honda board members are somewhat juxtaposed to this. In fact the board say that they accept Honda’s F1 project but only with McLaren and that’s why Honda refused to supply power units with Toro Rosso and RedBull mooted back in August. If they can’t continue collaboration with McLaren, there is a possibility that the board members will put a veto to the engine swap with Toro Rosso’s Renault with the obvious consequence that Honda would withdraw from F1 altogether".
Rather strangely and perhaps further cementing evidence of the board’s opinion of their relationship with McLaren, it has been requested by the board that Senna era Mclaren-Honda images should be used for an up and coming Honda advertisement campaign. So it seems then from Honda’s point of view (for now), it’s McLaren or bust.
Porsche "seriously considering" a return to F1
Lutz Meschke, Deputy Chairman of the Executive Board and Member of the Board for Finances and IT, met with Ross Brawn and the sport's other bosses at the Italian Grand Prix. Although it has not been directly involved with the sport since its disastrous relationship with the Footwork team in 1991, Porsche has retained a commercial involvement with the F1 organization through the Supercup, paying for it to have a place on the support programme.
The F1 opportunity has opened up because Porsche stops its LMP1 project at the end of this season, having decided that it doesn't get sufficient return for what is in effect an F1-size budget, but without the income and sponsorship that the likes of Mercedes enjoy. The company has already made a commitment to Formula E with a works-backed team from the 2019/20 season. However, it has also sent representatives to the series of recent meetings about the 2021 F1 engine regulations.
It has been encouraged by the direction that is being taken, with a move to cheaper and simpler technology than is currently used. "F1 could be one of the right places," Meschke said "As you know Formula E is very important for us now, and F1 is always a good topic to think about. And I think we are in quite good discussions regarding the new engine".
Asked if the current plans for a twin-turbo V6 with less technology could attract Porsche to F1 he said: "Absolutely. We have to cut costs in F1, and it's a good way to reach this target". Meschke also confirmed that "discussions are around being a supplier," and thus there are no plans to form a works team. Among the obvious possible partners are Williams, which enjoyed a technical relationship with Porsche before selling its Hybrid Power division, and Red Bull, which has extensive connections with the VW Group. McLaren has a strong history with Porsche through the TAG turbo collaboration of 1983-87, but they are now competitors in the road car market.
F1's commercial boss Sean Bratches said "As the individual who kind of runs marketing and branding at F1 the inclusion of Porsche, which is a heritage racing brand in our sport, would be highly valued".
The Japanese press are reporting that the Board of Honda are split over if they will stay in F1 or not. Mr. Yago Takahiro, (Honda’s President) has called a full board meeting this week so the company can decide on all the options available. It seems the board want to remain with McLaren and that is the only deal they will accept. One press report said this "Yamamoto (Honda's motorsport manager) has also revealed to the Japanese media that from his opinion Honda won’t leave F1. Furthermore he confirms that other teams want to race with Honda’s Power Unit but the Honda board members are somewhat juxtaposed to this. In fact the board say that they accept Honda’s F1 project but only with McLaren and that’s why Honda refused to supply power units with Toro Rosso and RedBull mooted back in August. If they can’t continue collaboration with McLaren, there is a possibility that the board members will put a veto to the engine swap with Toro Rosso’s Renault with the obvious consequence that Honda would withdraw from F1 altogether".
Rather strangely and perhaps further cementing evidence of the board’s opinion of their relationship with McLaren, it has been requested by the board that Senna era Mclaren-Honda images should be used for an up and coming Honda advertisement campaign. So it seems then from Honda’s point of view (for now), it’s McLaren or bust.
Porsche "seriously considering" a return to F1
Lutz Meschke, Deputy Chairman of the Executive Board and Member of the Board for Finances and IT, met with Ross Brawn and the sport's other bosses at the Italian Grand Prix. Although it has not been directly involved with the sport since its disastrous relationship with the Footwork team in 1991, Porsche has retained a commercial involvement with the F1 organization through the Supercup, paying for it to have a place on the support programme.
The F1 opportunity has opened up because Porsche stops its LMP1 project at the end of this season, having decided that it doesn't get sufficient return for what is in effect an F1-size budget, but without the income and sponsorship that the likes of Mercedes enjoy. The company has already made a commitment to Formula E with a works-backed team from the 2019/20 season. However, it has also sent representatives to the series of recent meetings about the 2021 F1 engine regulations.
It has been encouraged by the direction that is being taken, with a move to cheaper and simpler technology than is currently used. "F1 could be one of the right places," Meschke said "As you know Formula E is very important for us now, and F1 is always a good topic to think about. And I think we are in quite good discussions regarding the new engine".
Asked if the current plans for a twin-turbo V6 with less technology could attract Porsche to F1 he said: "Absolutely. We have to cut costs in F1, and it's a good way to reach this target". Meschke also confirmed that "discussions are around being a supplier," and thus there are no plans to form a works team. Among the obvious possible partners are Williams, which enjoyed a technical relationship with Porsche before selling its Hybrid Power division, and Red Bull, which has extensive connections with the VW Group. McLaren has a strong history with Porsche through the TAG turbo collaboration of 1983-87, but they are now competitors in the road car market.
F1's commercial boss Sean Bratches said "As the individual who kind of runs marketing and branding at F1 the inclusion of Porsche, which is a heritage racing brand in our sport, would be highly valued".
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
They have a point tbh. F1 is kinda silly at the moment, it's killed a lot of my enthusiasm for it. I know the engines need to be relevant to road car development but I do think it's time to admit that the current engine rules and regulations are far too complicated and do nothing for the sport.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
The Monza grid was a farce.
Some idle, and not-especially-considered, musings:
I think F1 is trying to serve too many masters.
There's the ecological imperative on energy saving, leading to complex hybrid systems. Smaller engines and their related systems are being overclocked to maintain the thrills and spills F1 needs to entertain audiences, and they wear out fast. There's a need to limit spending to allow the poorer teams to compete with the rich ones, so no team has enough power units as opposed to just the poor teams. The new owner is a media organisation that - unsurprisingly - wants to increase income-generating content by holding more races. Meanwhile the cost-saving lobby is charging in the opposite direction by even reducing the number of components. The amount of money F1 generates is rat-gaggingly huge, but not much of it ends up in the teams' pockets.
Now that Formula E has kicked off, let's drop the ecological pretence. F1 is a power and speed sport, and should stop apologising for its existence. It's about excitement and fun, not providing an example of safe and sensible road demeanour, and being treated like naughty, noisy children. And let's stop trying to justify F1 on the grounds of R&D. For sure, along the way, the wily brains of F1 will dream up some whizz-bang toys for road cars, which is great and will enrich the team. But the main purpose is to race cars, have fun, and entertain like-minded people.
They should agree an engine formula that balances power and thirstiness. All the power recovery systems and boosty extras should go. The car should be an engine, gearbox, brakes and wheels, fitted around a chassis. They should stop specifying fuel flow rates and consumption limits. Just give the cars a maximum tank size that fits the dimensions of the chassis, and let the cars drag the full load around, or throttle back, or run out. Limits on the numbers of engines should be at least one per race, with unlimited gearboxes, not 3 per season. Much cheaper engines; many more of them.
The finances of F1 need a re-think. It sucks that (some) teams are scrabbling around to pay bills and people at the end of the month, let alone afford sensible volumes of components. Too many non-participants have engorged themselves on plunder from the F1 fans' wallets. Teams need enough guaranteed income to show sponsors they'll be around for the season. The teams provide the entertainment that earns the money. It's their show. They should be telling FOM and FIA what they want or they'll find another way to race cars.
If the teams have no appetite to drop the oily rag and start managing their collective rights, they should find an Ecclestone Mark II to prepare a new independent Concorde agreement, and dangle it in front of Liberty, saying you could stop all this if you play nicely now. It's in everyone's interests - FIA, FOM, Liberty, Teams, employees, fans, drivers - that as many well-funded teams that can fit on the grid should be queueing up to join F1. Most of all, the teams should keep repeating the mantra: We the teams are the freehold of F1; Liberty only has a short-term lease.
Promoters need to make money too, and a sport awash with cash really shouldn't be requiring subsidies from governments (read: taxpayers) to stage races. Liberty make fine speeches about staying connected with the heritage of the sport, while they chase new audiences with more pliant governments, and the old European races get less certain every year.
Still, what do I know?
Some idle, and not-especially-considered, musings:
I think F1 is trying to serve too many masters.
There's the ecological imperative on energy saving, leading to complex hybrid systems. Smaller engines and their related systems are being overclocked to maintain the thrills and spills F1 needs to entertain audiences, and they wear out fast. There's a need to limit spending to allow the poorer teams to compete with the rich ones, so no team has enough power units as opposed to just the poor teams. The new owner is a media organisation that - unsurprisingly - wants to increase income-generating content by holding more races. Meanwhile the cost-saving lobby is charging in the opposite direction by even reducing the number of components. The amount of money F1 generates is rat-gaggingly huge, but not much of it ends up in the teams' pockets.
Now that Formula E has kicked off, let's drop the ecological pretence. F1 is a power and speed sport, and should stop apologising for its existence. It's about excitement and fun, not providing an example of safe and sensible road demeanour, and being treated like naughty, noisy children. And let's stop trying to justify F1 on the grounds of R&D. For sure, along the way, the wily brains of F1 will dream up some whizz-bang toys for road cars, which is great and will enrich the team. But the main purpose is to race cars, have fun, and entertain like-minded people.
They should agree an engine formula that balances power and thirstiness. All the power recovery systems and boosty extras should go. The car should be an engine, gearbox, brakes and wheels, fitted around a chassis. They should stop specifying fuel flow rates and consumption limits. Just give the cars a maximum tank size that fits the dimensions of the chassis, and let the cars drag the full load around, or throttle back, or run out. Limits on the numbers of engines should be at least one per race, with unlimited gearboxes, not 3 per season. Much cheaper engines; many more of them.
The finances of F1 need a re-think. It sucks that (some) teams are scrabbling around to pay bills and people at the end of the month, let alone afford sensible volumes of components. Too many non-participants have engorged themselves on plunder from the F1 fans' wallets. Teams need enough guaranteed income to show sponsors they'll be around for the season. The teams provide the entertainment that earns the money. It's their show. They should be telling FOM and FIA what they want or they'll find another way to race cars.
If the teams have no appetite to drop the oily rag and start managing their collective rights, they should find an Ecclestone Mark II to prepare a new independent Concorde agreement, and dangle it in front of Liberty, saying you could stop all this if you play nicely now. It's in everyone's interests - FIA, FOM, Liberty, Teams, employees, fans, drivers - that as many well-funded teams that can fit on the grid should be queueing up to join F1. Most of all, the teams should keep repeating the mantra: We the teams are the freehold of F1; Liberty only has a short-term lease.
Promoters need to make money too, and a sport awash with cash really shouldn't be requiring subsidies from governments (read: taxpayers) to stage races. Liberty make fine speeches about staying connected with the heritage of the sport, while they chase new audiences with more pliant governments, and the old European races get less certain every year.
Still, what do I know?
Last edited:
1%er
Well-Known Member
There are a number of things that could be done in the power-unit area, in my view. ERS (energy recovery system) is a great way forward and has massive road car relevance, but which systems should F1 be looking at. There are currently two systems used on the cars and I'm not really sure both are needed.The Monza grid was a farce.
Some idle, and not-especially-considered, musings:
I think F1 is trying to serve too many masters.
There's the ecological imperative on energy saving, leading to complex hybrid systems. Smaller engines and their related systems are being overclocked to maintain the thrills and spills F1 needs to entertain audiences, and they wear out fast. There's a need to limit spending to allow the poorer teams to compete with the rich ones, so no team has enough power units as opposed to just the poor teams. The new owner is a media organisation that - unsurprisingly - wants to increase income-generating content by holding more races. Meanwhile the cost-saving lobby is charging in the opposite direction by even reducing the number of components. The amount of money F1 generates is rat-gaggingly huge, but not much of it ends up in the teams' pockets.
Now that Formula E has kicked off, let's drop the ecological pretence. F1 is a power and speed sport, and should stop apologising for its existence. It's about excitement and fun, not providing an example of safe and sensible road demeanour, and being treated like naughty, noisy children. And let's stop trying to justify F1 on the grounds of R&D. For sure, along the way, the wily brains of F1 will dream up some whizz-bang toys for road cars, which is great and will enrich the team. But the main purpose is to race cars, have fun, and entertain like-minded people.
They should agree an engine formula that balances power and thirstiness. All the power recovery systems and boosty extras should go. The car should be an engine, gearbox, brakes and wheels, fitted around a chassis. They should stop specifying fuel flow rates and consumption limits. Just give the cars a maximum tank size that fits the dimensions of the chassis, and let the cars drag the full load around, or throttle back, or run out. Limits on the numbers of engines should be at least one per race, with unlimited gearboxes, not 3 per season. Much cheaper engines; many more of them.
The finances of F1 need a re-think. It sucks that (some) teams are scrabbling around to pay bills and people at the end of the month, let alone afford sensible volumes of components. Too many non-participants have engorged themselves on plunder from the F1 fans' wallets. Teams need enough guaranteed income to show sponsors they'll be around for the season. The teams provide the entertainment that earns the money. It's their show. They should be telling FOM and FIA what they want or they'll find another way to race cars.
If the teams have no appetite to drop the oily rag and start managing their collective rights, they should find an Ecclestone Mark II to prepare a new independent Concorde agreement, and dangle it in front of Liberty, saying you could stop all this if you play nicely now. It's in everyone's interests - FIA, FOM, Liberty, Teams, employees, fans, drivers - that as many well-funded teams that can fit on the grid should be queueing up to join F1. Most of all, the teams should keep repeating the mantra: We the teams are the freehold of F1; Liberty only has a short-term lease.
Promoters need to make money too, and a sport awash with cash really shouldn't be requiring subsidies from governments (read: taxpayers) to stage races. Liberty make fine speeches about staying connected with the heritage of the sport, while they chase new audiences with more pliant governments, and the old European races get less certain every year.
Still, what do I know?
The MGU-H (motor generator unit heat working off the turbo) is and has always been the most complicated and expensive system and needs constant management from both the driver and the team to work at full capacity , but the way systems have been designed the MGU-H supplies power to the MGU-K and also assists is storing the energy generated by the MGU-K, the MGU-H also supplies power back to the turbos to prevent turbo-lag. But the cars could work without it and still be hybrid with lots of road car relevance.
The MGU-K (motor generator unit kinetic [its a development of the KERS system], it is directly connected to the rear wheels and supplies energy to the crankshaft) is the better system and can supply more power to storage, when first introduced it developed around 60kW of energy but that has doubled now to 120kw, I've read that it is capable now of again doubling the power to 240kw, which would be around 320 more BHP. One of the problems of increasing the energy from the MGU-K is stability, drivers have complained that the system when in use can unsettle the car as it works directly off the rear breaks, but I believe that could be resolved if the 4 wheel system was introduced, its been developed but is currently outlawed by the regulations.
The big downside from ERS to F1 cars has been the increase in the weight of the car, so if one looks at power to weight the cars are now 100KGs heavier than they were with the old V8 engines, so how much of the energy supplied by ERS is just pushing extra weight around?
DRS has also played a part in making the sport less interesting (in my view) and is now much less useful with the cars having so much extra down-force, the wake from cars nowadays is making it much harder for cars to follow each other closely, thus reducing the advantage of DRS. Ross Brawn's working group is looking at ways to get rid of DRS all together and if they are smart, I believe what they should do is scrap the MGU-H and develop a stand alone 4 wheel MGU-K system. If this could work at 240kw it could be used in a split form, 120kw used for extra power while racing (as now) with an extra 120kw used for push-to-pass (like the original KERS system), that would enable FOM and the FIA to do away with DRS.
I also think that if they get rid of the MGU-H the turbos would be louder
They could also make only one fuel delivery system, at the moment they have a choice of two, port injection and direct injection (although I think that now all teams use direct injection), if they did away with the fuel flow restrictions they could also develop higher revving engines which again would mean more noise. They have already managed to get the fuel per race down by 30% maybe it is time to reverse that trend or hold it at that level, for sure they can't be thinking of reducing it even more.As for Liberty media, Promoters, grid penalties and finances, I have my view but not the time to expand on them now, if I remember I'll come back to them later.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Honda no announcement means they are staying (I believe)
Honda had a board meeting this week and yet we have heard nothing from the company or McLaren, why is that? Honda is a publicly listed company so any major announcement that could effect its share price has to be made "at the earliest opportunity". Leaving F1 would/could have a big effect on its share price, yet we have heard nothing. I believe this means that Honda will be staying in F1 at least until the new concorde agreement.
I think what will happen now is that McLaren will move to Renault for 2018/9/20. Depending on the new engine regulation I.E. if they are stable for a minimum of 5 years and with reduced cost, I think McLaren will from 2021 build their own engines, it make sense, they build their own cars and have used a variety of different engines over the years, from BMW, Mercedes to Nissan.
If I'm right about no announcement means they are staying, surely the only team they can go to is Toro Rosso for 2018 and I think Red Bull racing will move to Honda as soon as 2019, if Honda can get their engine working well next season. This deal is a great deal for both Red Bull and Toro Rosso, why? Currently Honda finance McLaren to the tune of $100million a year and there is no reason to believe Honda will not do a similar or better deal with Toro Rosso and maybe with Red Bull at the start. Why would Toro Rosso and Red Bull be worried about money? Well Toro Rosso is and has been up for sale for some time and it has been reported many times over the last couple of years that Dietrich Mateschitz feels his time is up in F1. He can't just walk away as it would cost him hundreds of millions of dollars because of the massive penalty clauses if teams leave before 2020. I think what will happen long term is that Toro Rosso will be sold (with the new buyer looking at 2020/21 to start racing) and Red Bull will become Aston Martin Racing for 2021. The cost of both teams to any new buyer could be subsidized with a very good sponsorship deal to have both or one of the cars branded Red Bull for 3 years or so.
The key to any future deals now, being so close to the new concorde agreement is cost-effective rules for 2021 and beyond. Jean Todt said earlier this week that the FIA have had "no serious interest" in new teams coming forward to join the grid so they will not be opening a tender for 2018, I think there are a number of interested parties but they don't want to move until the new engines regulations are announced, but I'm sure they will want input into the new concorde agreement, so I think this time next year we will have a clearer picture of teams that could be on the grid from 2020/1.
Drivers on the move
I think one thing is for sure Carlos Sainz Jr is not likely to want to stay at Toro Rosso if they take Honda engines, but can he move and if so, where too? The first option would be Renault as part of the whole Renault/Honda engine deal, replacing Palmer but what about Sergio Perez (he hasn't yet resigned to Force India), I'm sure after Force India's problems with their drivers over the last few races he is also looking for a move and Renault is his only real option, it will be interesting to see who gets Palmer's seat. If it is Perez this would leave an open seat in the Mercedes powered Force India that would be the perfect place for Pascal Wehrlein who is almost certain to loose his seat at Sauber to Charles Leclerc the young Ferrari driver, who Ferrari will want to be in a car powered by their engine. With the top six drives, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull taken I'm not sure that the rest of the grid is that interesting really.
Honda had a board meeting this week and yet we have heard nothing from the company or McLaren, why is that? Honda is a publicly listed company so any major announcement that could effect its share price has to be made "at the earliest opportunity". Leaving F1 would/could have a big effect on its share price, yet we have heard nothing. I believe this means that Honda will be staying in F1 at least until the new concorde agreement.
I think what will happen now is that McLaren will move to Renault for 2018/9/20. Depending on the new engine regulation I.E. if they are stable for a minimum of 5 years and with reduced cost, I think McLaren will from 2021 build their own engines, it make sense, they build their own cars and have used a variety of different engines over the years, from BMW, Mercedes to Nissan.
If I'm right about no announcement means they are staying, surely the only team they can go to is Toro Rosso for 2018 and I think Red Bull racing will move to Honda as soon as 2019, if Honda can get their engine working well next season. This deal is a great deal for both Red Bull and Toro Rosso, why? Currently Honda finance McLaren to the tune of $100million a year and there is no reason to believe Honda will not do a similar or better deal with Toro Rosso and maybe with Red Bull at the start. Why would Toro Rosso and Red Bull be worried about money? Well Toro Rosso is and has been up for sale for some time and it has been reported many times over the last couple of years that Dietrich Mateschitz feels his time is up in F1. He can't just walk away as it would cost him hundreds of millions of dollars because of the massive penalty clauses if teams leave before 2020. I think what will happen long term is that Toro Rosso will be sold (with the new buyer looking at 2020/21 to start racing) and Red Bull will become Aston Martin Racing for 2021. The cost of both teams to any new buyer could be subsidized with a very good sponsorship deal to have both or one of the cars branded Red Bull for 3 years or so.
The key to any future deals now, being so close to the new concorde agreement is cost-effective rules for 2021 and beyond. Jean Todt said earlier this week that the FIA have had "no serious interest" in new teams coming forward to join the grid so they will not be opening a tender for 2018, I think there are a number of interested parties but they don't want to move until the new engines regulations are announced, but I'm sure they will want input into the new concorde agreement, so I think this time next year we will have a clearer picture of teams that could be on the grid from 2020/1.
Drivers on the move
I think one thing is for sure Carlos Sainz Jr is not likely to want to stay at Toro Rosso if they take Honda engines, but can he move and if so, where too? The first option would be Renault as part of the whole Renault/Honda engine deal, replacing Palmer but what about Sergio Perez (he hasn't yet resigned to Force India), I'm sure after Force India's problems with their drivers over the last few races he is also looking for a move and Renault is his only real option, it will be interesting to see who gets Palmer's seat. If it is Perez this would leave an open seat in the Mercedes powered Force India that would be the perfect place for Pascal Wehrlein who is almost certain to loose his seat at Sauber to Charles Leclerc the young Ferrari driver, who Ferrari will want to be in a car powered by their engine. With the top six drives, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull taken I'm not sure that the rest of the grid is that interesting really.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Liberty Media looking to inner city circuits for the future
According to F1's new commercial chief Sean Bratches Liberty Media have had 40 expressions of interest from potential grand prix venues since taking over the sport. He says they will focus on street races in major cities rather than automatically taking the best commercial deals. Currently the concorde agreement is caped at a maximum of 25 races per season. He intends to be much more proactive in identifying cities and locations that are accretive to the F1 brand, rather that reactive as things have been in the past. He doesn't believe that F1 needs more new permanent tracks but wants to move to many more inner city street circuits.
They also want to split the season into 3 to make the timing of races easier for fans to understand, rather than jumping to different time zones throughout the season, so the season will start in Asia, move on to Europe and end in the Americas. This will help with travel cost and make it more efficient for the circus to move around the world. I think nowadays when moving around F1 uses something like 350 large HGV's and 10 747's to get from race to race throughout the season. It will also mean that fans will know that for 3 months races will be in the early morning, then afternoons and to end evenings.
Has Alonso made up his mind?
It seems that Fernando Alonso has removed all reference to McLaren and Honda from all his social media sites, a strange thing to do given he still has around a third of the season to finish. But he is a petulant little fucker so maybe he is just in a bad mood at the moment and normal service will be resumed
According to F1's new commercial chief Sean Bratches Liberty Media have had 40 expressions of interest from potential grand prix venues since taking over the sport. He says they will focus on street races in major cities rather than automatically taking the best commercial deals. Currently the concorde agreement is caped at a maximum of 25 races per season. He intends to be much more proactive in identifying cities and locations that are accretive to the F1 brand, rather that reactive as things have been in the past. He doesn't believe that F1 needs more new permanent tracks but wants to move to many more inner city street circuits.
They also want to split the season into 3 to make the timing of races easier for fans to understand, rather than jumping to different time zones throughout the season, so the season will start in Asia, move on to Europe and end in the Americas. This will help with travel cost and make it more efficient for the circus to move around the world. I think nowadays when moving around F1 uses something like 350 large HGV's and 10 747's to get from race to race throughout the season. It will also mean that fans will know that for 3 months races will be in the early morning, then afternoons and to end evenings.
Has Alonso made up his mind?
It seems that Fernando Alonso has removed all reference to McLaren and Honda from all his social media sites, a strange thing to do given he still has around a third of the season to finish. But he is a petulant little fucker so maybe he is just in a bad mood at the moment and normal service will be resumed
1%er
Well-Known Member
What to do about Grid penalties
The debacle in Monza of the amount of grid penalties has highlighted a growing problem in F1 that will only get bigger as the number of power-unit available per season drops. Last week’s Italian Grand Prix saw a cumulative drop of 150 places on the grid and quickly turned into a dogs breakfast and highlighted a need for change.
The problem is the fact that the grid penalty system is one of the fairest forms of punishment ever used in Formula 1. An engine change will result in the same grid drop for the championship leader as it does for a lowly Sauber. So if the grid penalty system was to be replaced, then it’s replacement should aim for a similar level of fairness, not one rule the the top teams and a different rule for the back-markers as has sometimes been the case in the past.
It must also be remembered that 2/3s of the grid are customer teams and depend on others for engines and gearboxes, so any penalty system should also try to avoid punishing customers more than manufacturer teams. This is made especially difficult by the fact that some teams give inferior equipment to their customers and are not always using the most up to date package. Tow such exapmles are Sauber this year running a 2016 Ferrari power-unit and it is reported that Force India's deal with Mercedes for next year means that the team will receive the latest spec engine a few races behind the factory Mercedes team.
In 2018 teams will be restricted to three of each component of the power unit, down from this year’s four. This could lead to even more grid penalties in the second half of the season, although it is thought that better reliability should counter that drop of one power-unit. What if an engine supplier decides not to use one of its customer teams to test its latest engine then they will not reap the rewards of R&D, and potential customers will have no understanding of what its product is capable of for the coming year.
Whether a new penalty system chooses to distinguish between performance and reliability only time will tell, but the current system effect both championships and in my view that needs to change.
I think the system needs to punish the team and not the driver as the driver has to drive what the team put in the car, so I am hopeful that any new system will remove points only from the constructors championship and that grid penalties for new parts are eliminated and the drivers championship can not be decided by power-units as was the case in 2016.
The debacle in Monza of the amount of grid penalties has highlighted a growing problem in F1 that will only get bigger as the number of power-unit available per season drops. Last week’s Italian Grand Prix saw a cumulative drop of 150 places on the grid and quickly turned into a dogs breakfast and highlighted a need for change.
The problem is the fact that the grid penalty system is one of the fairest forms of punishment ever used in Formula 1. An engine change will result in the same grid drop for the championship leader as it does for a lowly Sauber. So if the grid penalty system was to be replaced, then it’s replacement should aim for a similar level of fairness, not one rule the the top teams and a different rule for the back-markers as has sometimes been the case in the past.
It must also be remembered that 2/3s of the grid are customer teams and depend on others for engines and gearboxes, so any penalty system should also try to avoid punishing customers more than manufacturer teams. This is made especially difficult by the fact that some teams give inferior equipment to their customers and are not always using the most up to date package. Tow such exapmles are Sauber this year running a 2016 Ferrari power-unit and it is reported that Force India's deal with Mercedes for next year means that the team will receive the latest spec engine a few races behind the factory Mercedes team.
In 2018 teams will be restricted to three of each component of the power unit, down from this year’s four. This could lead to even more grid penalties in the second half of the season, although it is thought that better reliability should counter that drop of one power-unit. What if an engine supplier decides not to use one of its customer teams to test its latest engine then they will not reap the rewards of R&D, and potential customers will have no understanding of what its product is capable of for the coming year.
Whether a new penalty system chooses to distinguish between performance and reliability only time will tell, but the current system effect both championships and in my view that needs to change.
I think the system needs to punish the team and not the driver as the driver has to drive what the team put in the car, so I am hopeful that any new system will remove points only from the constructors championship and that grid penalties for new parts are eliminated and the drivers championship can not be decided by power-units as was the case in 2016.
1%er
Well-Known Member
It seems the deal is finally done
Reports across much of the European press are claiming that the McLaren/Renault, Toro Rosso/Honda deal has finally been sorted out and will be announced next week after all contracts are signed.
As has been speculated above in the thread, the deal includes Carlos Sainz moving from Toro Rosso to the Renault factory team for 2018 (other reports are claiming he could move earlier and be driving a Renault at the Malaysian Grand Prix in a couple of weeks, taking the seat of Jolyon Palmer). It is highly likely that his seat at Toro Rosso will be taken by Pierre Gasly if the move is to happen this season, if not and the move only takes place at the start of the 2018 season, it is thought that maybe Sainz's seat could be taken by the Honda F2 driver Nobuharu Matsushita, but I don't think he has enough super license points to get into F1 yet. If Matsushita does manage to get the points for his super license (and it is still a big "if') and Honda decide they want him in the team, all is not lost for Gasly. Daniil Kvyat hasn't really preformed this season, so maybe his seat could be taken by Gasly (I'm not sure that Toro Rosso or Honda would want two new F1 drivers in the team at a time when they are trying to sort out the power-unit).
At the beginning of the year Nobuharu Matsushita was signed to McLaren as their development driver and if the deal is done with Renault his place with-in the team becomes surplus to requirements, as he was put there by Honda. That could open the door for Lando Norris to replace him at McLaren.
Reports across much of the European press are claiming that the McLaren/Renault, Toro Rosso/Honda deal has finally been sorted out and will be announced next week after all contracts are signed.
As has been speculated above in the thread, the deal includes Carlos Sainz moving from Toro Rosso to the Renault factory team for 2018 (other reports are claiming he could move earlier and be driving a Renault at the Malaysian Grand Prix in a couple of weeks, taking the seat of Jolyon Palmer). It is highly likely that his seat at Toro Rosso will be taken by Pierre Gasly if the move is to happen this season, if not and the move only takes place at the start of the 2018 season, it is thought that maybe Sainz's seat could be taken by the Honda F2 driver Nobuharu Matsushita, but I don't think he has enough super license points to get into F1 yet. If Matsushita does manage to get the points for his super license (and it is still a big "if') and Honda decide they want him in the team, all is not lost for Gasly. Daniil Kvyat hasn't really preformed this season, so maybe his seat could be taken by Gasly (I'm not sure that Toro Rosso or Honda would want two new F1 drivers in the team at a time when they are trying to sort out the power-unit).
At the beginning of the year Nobuharu Matsushita was signed to McLaren as their development driver and if the deal is done with Renault his place with-in the team becomes surplus to requirements, as he was put there by Honda. That could open the door for Lando Norris to replace him at McLaren.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Seeing as Red Bull are looking at moving to Honda as well in 2019, I have a feeling the engine will get a lot better next season, if looking at what they have achieved with the Renault power-unit this season compared to the factory team is anything to go by.
1%er
Well-Known Member
Mercede-AMG Project One hypercar
Mercedes just unveiled in Frankfurt its highly anticipated Mercede-AMG Project One hypercar derived from the world of F1 but designed for road-going use. The Project One beast is powered by a 1.6-liter turbocharged V6 engine coupled with hybrid technology offering a combined output exceeding 1,000 horsepower!
Underneath its impressive skin and stunning aggressive robe, the Project One also features an all-wheel-drive transmission with an electrified front axle enabling a top speed estimated to surpass 350 km/h. For a zero emission trip, drivers are limited to a range of 26 kilometers thanks to a battery pack using F1-derived lithium-ion cell technology. We doubt however that exclusive owners of the Project One would be traveling in electric silence, unless there not looking at their fuel gauge.
To date, 275 people have signed on to buy the Project One, but patience is warranted as Mercedes-AMG will reportedly make only one car per day and production is scheduled to commence late next year.
Mercedes just unveiled in Frankfurt its highly anticipated Mercede-AMG Project One hypercar derived from the world of F1 but designed for road-going use. The Project One beast is powered by a 1.6-liter turbocharged V6 engine coupled with hybrid technology offering a combined output exceeding 1,000 horsepower!
Underneath its impressive skin and stunning aggressive robe, the Project One also features an all-wheel-drive transmission with an electrified front axle enabling a top speed estimated to surpass 350 km/h. For a zero emission trip, drivers are limited to a range of 26 kilometers thanks to a battery pack using F1-derived lithium-ion cell technology. We doubt however that exclusive owners of the Project One would be traveling in electric silence, unless there not looking at their fuel gauge.
To date, 275 people have signed on to buy the Project One, but patience is warranted as Mercedes-AMG will reportedly make only one car per day and production is scheduled to commence late next year.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Yes, it has a certain industrial look to it, especially from the arse end.
I wonder what insurance group it is?
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
The Honda / McLaren saga finally expires.
F1 news: McLaren agrees deal to leave Honda for Renault in 2018 F1 season
Family flowers only.
F1 news: McLaren agrees deal to leave Honda for Renault in 2018 F1 season
Family flowers only.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
We'll need to re-tune to Kimi FM, where the guy on the beep machine has carpal tunnel syndrome.
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
Botty's on board at Mercedes for 2018.
No surprise. He's a good fit for the team.
Valtteri Bottas signs new Mercedes deal for 2018 season
No surprise. He's a good fit for the team.
Valtteri Bottas signs new Mercedes deal for 2018 season
1%er
Well-Known Member
Jolyon Palmer to Williams anyone?
What are the chances? Not as bad as they seem if you look at the whole picture. While there is no talk of Felipe Massa re-retiring he is 36 and his Brazilian sponsorship is getting smaller as the economy here is going down the tubes. Clearly Mercedes would love to put Pascal Wehrlein there as it now seem sure he will not get a seat at Sauber next season, but Williams title sponsor Martini appear to have a clause in their contract with Williams that one of there drivers must be over 25 (this was the reason Massa returned iirc).
What's in the plus column, well he is British and Williams like having a British driver, he's experienced and relatively inexpensive, he has sponsorship to take with him and he has the contacts with-in the team having grown up as the son of an ex-Williams test driver, maybe everything isn't lost for him with Carlos Sainz now signed for Renault. Watch this space
What are the chances? Not as bad as they seem if you look at the whole picture. While there is no talk of Felipe Massa re-retiring he is 36 and his Brazilian sponsorship is getting smaller as the economy here is going down the tubes. Clearly Mercedes would love to put Pascal Wehrlein there as it now seem sure he will not get a seat at Sauber next season, but Williams title sponsor Martini appear to have a clause in their contract with Williams that one of there drivers must be over 25 (this was the reason Massa returned iirc).
What's in the plus column, well he is British and Williams like having a British driver, he's experienced and relatively inexpensive, he has sponsorship to take with him and he has the contacts with-in the team having grown up as the son of an ex-Williams test driver, maybe everything isn't lost for him with Carlos Sainz now signed for Renault. Watch this space
Limejuice
Well-Known Member
I must admit I have been thinking 'farewell, Jolyon' for most of this season.
When his driving's been up to scratch, he's had awful luck. And when his luck has been good, his driving's been...
Still, one does like to see a Brit. Any chance it could be Paul di Resta?
When his driving's been up to scratch, he's had awful luck. And when his luck has been good, his driving's been...
Still, one does like to see a Brit. Any chance it could be Paul di Resta?
1%er
Well-Known Member
It's not impossible, but I'd be surprised if they put Paul di Resta in as a driver for 2018. I think they could do better with someone else.
1%er
Well-Known Member
The headline in the link is a little misleading for people who don't read the detail, it is in fact Renault who want to terminate their contract with Red Bull. I think this is very interesting and not really unexpected as Red Bull were reported to be moving to Honda in 2019 following their junior team Toro Rosso. The Tag Heuer branded power-unit used by Red Bull has been showing up the Renault works team this season and that situation cannot really continue, for a major manufacture like Renault being beaten by a customer team really doesn't look good
Red Bull have been linked to Volkswagen owned brands Audi and Porsche, but it now seems that whichever Volkswagen brand enters F1 they are unlikely to do so prior to the new engine regulations that will start in 2021, by which time Toro Rosso is likely to have been sold. It must be remembered that Red Bull are only using re-branded Renault engines because no-one else would give them an engine.
This could have a massive effect on Red Bull as Daniel Ricciardo is out of contract with the team at the end of 2018 and while Max Verstappen is reported to be contracted to the team until the end of 2019, he is unlikely to remain with Red Bull if the Honda engine doesn't greatly improve during the 2018 season. Who is going to want to drive for Red Bull if Honda have another appalling season next year?
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